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Gays and Guns

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K6:

--- Quote from: Mogul on Sun, May 28, 2006, 00:50 ---Sure, a well-organized gay paramilitary would be of greate use in certain areas of the world. A very well organized gay paramilitary would be able to control not a humble a piece of territory and turn it into a gay state with joint effort of other gays.

--- End quote ---

The organized and if I might say so scientific application of force will play a limited role in lenght of time and in the course of the establishment of a gay independent State.The window of opportunity for such a purpose,for example during an interregnum within some hethro society,will be narrow.We will have to seize quickly some territorial prizes,plus some more to use as bargaining chips to hand back should some international conference follow.I must say this here that separatist though I might be,I am not sympathetic to the type of organization in militias which exists in the United States.We could perfectly remain civilians.But we cannot remain ignorant of military matters,organization and history.Or incapable of applying our knowledges in that respect.Or dispense ourselves with a thorough political education and preparation.History had had excellent war leaders,like the bolshevik Leon Trotsky who wasn`t a professionnal soldier as far as I know.He commanded whole armies during the Russian
civil war,from his armoured train.Armies he had in the field,but also his private library in his armoured train.Reading books,he had learned all what a war leader and Prince in the machiavelian sense had to know.He won the Russian civil war.

K6

Mogul:

--- Quote from: K6 on Sat, May 27, 2006, 20:41 ---In a situation of anarchy,armed groups operating professionnally and in a concerted fashion will eventually and rather easily conquer isolated armed individuals.They are the ones who will eventually be the inheritors of a former State which vanished from the map.The survival of isolated armed individuals in that context will only be temporary,unless they join or form a group,their respective group.If gays won`t play the game themselves,with their own organization and with a plan,they will be among the defeated.Someone else will grab territory and eventually turn it into a State. There is no question for gays of joining any non-gay organization,of course.
--- End quote ---

Sure, a well-organized gay paramilitary would be of greate use in certain areas of the world. A very well organized gay paramilitary would be able to control not a humble a piece of territory and turn it into a gay state with joint effort of other gays. Unfortunately, we are far from being organized: neither in Europe, not in the US and not in Russia. In the latter country, only few dozens of gays and lesbians attended the march for gay rights on 27 May 2006, whereas the city might count many hundreds of thousands gays and lesbians - all of them sitting at home and waiting untill they will be bashed on dark streets one by one. If getting armed, than as organization - then it will be probably possible to use firsts instead of bullets.

K6:

--- Quote from: Ninja_monkey on Sat, May 27, 2006, 20:16 ---
That less-than-lethal outcome is what why you don't carry small-caliber weapons with little stopping power; it's what hollow-point, high-powered ++ P ammunition is for; and it's where the tactical doctrine of 'point, squeeze and continue squeezing until the target is altogether dead' comes into play.


--- End quote ---

There exists on the market a computer game called IGI-2 (I am going in 2).It reproduces fairly accurately the environment and outcome of a fight with a variety of weapons.A work colleague of mine who knew how to man a computer with respect to that game,but who knew nothing about infantry tactics,once asked me to help him winning the said game.There he sat,manning the computer,and I giving him indications on how to operate and liquidate his adversaries one by like ducks on a pond.The pistol with a silencer was good only to shoot unsuspecting adversaries,preferably in the back.The game was realistic in the sense that one won by  skill and planning,rather than by raw violence.My
work colleague,who had no experience with weapons and who had never been trained militarily,was generally shot at the beginning of the game.

K6

K6:

--- Quote from: Ninja_monkey on Sat, May 27, 2006, 20:16 ---
Despite what you might have heard, the vast, vast majority of people are not armed here in the US, especially on the street. And I include criminals in that. I have read the same statistics you have about the potential for a gun to be turned on its bearer. All I can say is that in the 2 years that I (legally) carried a revolver back in the 90s, I was called upon to draw it twice-- and actually point it once. In both circumstances, the distinct threats evaporated as soon as the pistol cleared the holster. 


--- End quote ---

If - hypothetically always - I drew some weapon in a situation of present and immediate danger,I would have beforehand contemplated the effective use of that weapon and weighted carefully the chances of coming out as the victor.Against a group of attackers,I would have figured out a plan to disable the entire group in a single blow,leaving no one capable of firing back.Such a result cannot be achieved with a mere handgun.I never had like you to draw a weapon for my defense.But I have been twice to at least one dangerous place on earth - Colombia - and there merely drawing a pistol would not necessarily ensure one`s survival.Down there,they wouldn`t even leave you the opportunity to draw to start with.Gays who advocate the use of force and violence are undoubtedly very courageous people.But they are not always very consequent.
Weapons are for trained people,part of some armed force,even the armed force of a State which is still embryonic.

K6

K6:

--- Quote from: Ninja_monkey on Sat, May 27, 2006, 20:16 ---When the State collapses, the main task is remaining alive and protecting your loved ones. Again, above, you assume that military or paramilitary organizations would necessesarily be operating for the good of GLBT people in such circumstances. In the US, as in so many other places, that cannot be assumed. The history of such organizations requires that thoughtful GLBT people think otherwise.

--- End quote ---

In a situation of anarchy,armed groups operating professionnally and in a concerted fashion will eventually and rather easily conquer isolated armed individuals.They are the ones who will eventually be the inheritors of a former State which vanished from the map.The survival of isolated armed individuals in that context will only be temporary,unless they join or form a group,their respective group.If gays won`t play the game themselves,with their own organization and with a plan,they will be among the defeated.Someone else will grab territory and eventually turn it into a State.
There is no question for gays of joining any non-gay organization,of course.

K6

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