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donClark:
Viktor,

you are right in everything that you have said. I was one of the members threatned with "arrest" if we did not stop.  The investigation commitiee was more then just looking into the fake pictures we wanted answers about where the money people were sending in was going, who had access to it, and what it was spent on, we wanted answers about wheter there was a "dale" because some of us had a phone number for him that was sent to us by him "supposedly" but the phone number did not work and the  country code was not even a real country code, so you see I think this was the real reason for Bill and other members of the privy to get uncomfortable.  After this every member except Enrigue and Dan Fowler were put on moderate, when we complained we were told it was a mistake but it was never rectified. This is why I left the group and resigned because we were'nt going to get anything done, and we were called treasonist and other choice words, yet thepublic never knew because it was done by private email and any postings that we tried to do that showed this were not approved by themoderatorswho were bill and members of the privy.






--- Quote from: Mogul on Sun, May 01, 2005, 18:06 ---Well, to my knowledge, the specific escalation in the GLK during the March 2005 was caused by installation of an "investigation comitee" about the "fake pictures". Bill and Dale were not amused and were pressing the Assembly (illegally) to stop the questioning. Finally they prohibited the Assembly members to call for any official meetings by themselves. Lord Protector Jon Matlick appointed instead the next meeting to take place on 2. April 2005 (if memory serves), causing frustration and hostility among the Assembly members. As the Privy Council gained intelligence that members of the Assembly were preparing a legislation act, restricting the power position of the PC, several members of the Assembly were threatened by "warrant orders" against them. Everything in a private way, just to intimidate them without causing the mass of the citizens to even realize what is going on.

To prevent the Assembly from taking steps against the PC, few days before the 2. April a law act and a declaration was issued by Dale, were he admitted his mistakes and declared his FULL support to the PC members, as well as issued a financial report/ budget without taking ANY consultation with the Assembly. This action was clearly prepared by Bill and violated the competency of the Assembly in an outrageous extent, urging Jaix Brooks to illegal steps in turn and declaring Dale and the PC to be out of their legal power. As Bil had the full control over the yahoo group, the outcome of the whole conflict was pre-destined. In my personal judgement, the provocation was elaboratedly planned by Bill to get rid of the unconvenient legislators and make place for new, more loyal fellows.

Of course, would Jaix and others be experienced politicians, the outcome would be different. They would have prepared a law act, pass it with majority in the Assembly and wait for Dale's consent. This was the way I advised Jaix and others to do, but obviously they were to much eager to prove Bill and Joe that they can play hard as well. As whole, the GLK's ruling elites have proven a serious lack of allegiance to its constitution and other laws, the Chief Justice giving them more than once a good example in bending and trespassing laws.

The main problem is still, that many offices are existing but in name, the real competences are concentrated in hands of very few individuals and this people are absolutely unwilling to give something away and listen to advice of others. In the real world, a judge would NEVER interfere into the work of the parliament (OK, in Iran they do!), instead he would wait until the decision is made and then declare it unconstitutional because of this and that paragraph. From similiar understanding of the law were all prior intentions to declare some candidates as not suitable because of some artificial reasons (being journalist etc.) just before the voters could make their choice. The generall unwillingness to follow the rules, however they are imperfect, would cause serious problems in any group of people. Especially if people supposed to be the "laws guardians" give others a bad example.

--- End quote ---

Mogul:
To summarize my previous posting: the unclear definition of responsibilities and the unwillingness to let others act within their ressorts on their own pre-destine the failure of the enterprise as such. One shall be able to accept unpleasant decisions, as long as they are made by majority in consense with the established rules.

Mogul:
Well, to my knowledge, the specific escalation in the GLK during the March 2005 was caused by installation of an "investigation comitee" about the "fake pictures". Bill and Dale were not amused and were pressing the Assembly (illegally) to stop the questioning. Finally they prohibited the Assembly members to call for any official meetings by themselves. Lord Protector Jon Matlick appointed instead the next meeting to take place on 2. April 2005 (if memory serves), causing frustration and hostility among the Assembly members. As the Privy Council gained intelligence that members of the Assembly were preparing a legislation act, restricting the power position of the PC, several members of the Assembly were threatened by "warrant orders" against them. Everything in a private way, just to intimidate them without causing the mass of the citizens to even realize what is going on.

To prevent the Assembly from taking steps against the PC, few days before the 2. April a law act and a declaration was issued by Dale, were he admitted his mistakes and declared his FULL support to the PC members, as well as issued a financial report/ budget without taking ANY consultation with the Assembly. This action was clearly prepared by Bill and violated the competency of the Assembly in an outrageous extent, urging Jaix Brooks to illegal steps in turn and declaring Dale and the PC to be out of their legal power. As Bil had the full control over the yahoo group, the outcome of the whole conflict was pre-destined. In my personal judgement, the provocation was elaboratedly planned by Bill to get rid of the unconvenient legislators and make place for new, more loyal fellows.

Of course, would Jaix and others be experienced politicians, the outcome would be different. They would have prepared a law act, pass it with majority in the Assembly and wait for Dale's consent. This was the way I advised Jaix and others to do, but obviously they were to much eager to prove Bill and Joe that they can play hard as well. As whole, the GLK's ruling elites have proven a serious lack of allegiance to its constitution and other laws, the Chief Justice giving them more than once a good example in bending and trespassing laws.

The main problem is still, that many offices are existing but in name, the real competences are concentrated in hands of very few individuals and this people are absolutely unwilling to give something away and listen to advice of others. In the real world, a judge would NEVER interfere into the work of the parliament (OK, in Iran they do!), instead he would wait until the decision is made and then declare it unconstitutional because of this and that paragraph. From similiar understanding of the law were all prior intentions to declare some candidates as not suitable because of some artificial reasons (being journalist etc.) just before the voters could make their choice. The generall unwillingness to follow the rules, however they are imperfect, would cause serious problems in any group of people. Especially if people supposed to be the "laws guardians" give others a bad example.

Vizier:
Hello all. First off, a warm welcome to Ron and thank you for joining our forum.

Secondly, after reading all of the posts in this topic and having only been "involved" in/with the GLK for a fleeting moment before I was very rudely bashed for an opinion I "dared" to voice in their forum by one Enrique (questioning the GLK's viability), I'd just like to say that one of the reasons why I feel the GLR will be more of a success is that we will be "attacking" the entire scenario from the solid viewpoint of taking the steps to establishment and independence in a far more logical sequence.  Before any need for any type of government arises, there has to be some place, some one and some reason to govern at all.

It would appear to me from the outside looking in that the GLK set things up backwards, which smacks of "let's play Kings & Queens" and then grew into "why not try this and see if it works," which is a very shakey foundation for what could truly become a viable state/homeland/nation some day.

Another point which irked me to no end about the GLK was the chronic misuse of title - if you are going to establish yourself as a kingdom, you cannot, by any stretch of the imagination and within any perceiveable bending of the rules of nobility, rank, title and heraldry, be governed by an emperor. Further, if you are going to rule as a consititutional monarch, you simply don't issue imperial decrees. It would seem that some of the folks in the GLK went "cherry picking" and took the parts of the former British Empire, some items from the modern day United Kingdom, along with some elements of absolute and sheer fantasy and threw them all into a pot, stirred once or twice, and said, "Ooooh, goody, the GLK is born!"

(Then again, I am on the outside looking in. I humbly accede, I may be wrong!  I thought I was mistaken once, but found out later I was wrong about it.  :D)

One of the reasons I have been dedicating much time, energy and making in-kind contributions to GLR is because I, as a German (living in the U.S.) feel that logic is the rational basis for all actions and dealings. (Thank you Messrs. Hegel and Kant for those -genetically-predisposed?- traits ;) ) I feel that if we start over, from the ground up as proposed on our website, and follow the steps - first discuss and grow membership while soliciting input and proceeding logically, then start actively looking for a place and soliciting input and forming an idea of how our membership (i.e., the future citizens) wish to be governed, and then from there make the necessary arrangements, take the steps and actions needed - success is bound to be the result.

To me, as I said, the GLK seemed to be putting the cart before the horse...

By the way, posting real estate choices over in the other board (geographical) does not mean we are looking to do the same, these serve merely to inspire to what "might be" some day. None of this will happen overnight. Nothing will come easily. It will all be hard fought and won, which will make it worthwhile and inspire people someday to say "Are you a German?" or "Are you Hungarian?" - "No, I'm a citizen of the Gay Republic!" and mean it and be proud to say so.

Feral:
I stand corrected, Don. Naturally, I have access only to public information. I freely admit that I have no idea what was attempted—no one outside the Assembly does. I have heard rumors, both from members of the Assembly and from the Privy Council of some of the difficulties presented by both sides. There is obviously a serious difference of opinion there. There are text records of only a few Assembly meetings and none of them are especially informative on this score. There have, no doubt, been many meetings and conversations that have not been recorded or, if they have been recorded, not made public. I, of course, am not privy to this information.

According to the public record, there is not now any person serving as Prime Minister, Minister of Tourism and Community Services, Foreign Minister, or Finance Minister in the kingdom, nor has there been since December 21, 2004 (I have reason to believe that the position of Finance Minister was created on September 25 of that year and that no one has ever been appointed to that position). More importantly, there is no mention in the public record of any attempt to fill these positions. I could, with some effort, compile a list of members of the Assembly who have refused consideration of some of these posts, but I can find no mention of even one nomination. This is unfortunate, since I have been waiting since January to discuss a number of matters which I consider important with both the Prime Minister and the Minister of Tourism and Community Services. It is my understanding that at one time there was considerable interest in the kingdom’s financial dealings—these questions could have all been quite easily answered had there been a Finance Minister. While I understand there are some discussions currently going on regarding a revision of potential future ministries, these discussions do not outweigh the constitutional requirement for the currently existing positions to be filled in the interim.

In any event, I do not blame either the current Assembly or the Privy Council for what I view as the failure of the GLK—that particular moment happened in September, when the Assembly insisted upon an entirely illegal ‘war’ for an illusory paper legal advantage and subsequently revised the Gay Kingdom Act into an incomprehensible accumulation of mumbo-jumbo.

That the current Assembly has managed to enact nothing actually stands to their credit. Consider the legislative legacy left them by the first assembly: they created a handful of official holidays that no one has since troubled themselves to observe, they created a marine park of truly monumental proportions without any regulations whatsoever governing it (despite the fact that the Sydney/Hong Kong shipping route passes directly through it), they outlawed fluorescent lighting, and permitted on and all to walk naked on the kingdom’s beaches. Noble efforts, all—I do not doubt that Gay people everywhere breathed a sigh of relief each time the official publication of the kingdom produced yet another of these gems. For myself, I would have been satisfied with just a Finance Minister to inform me which account in which bank the kingdom’s money resided so that I might forward them the funds for a digital camera (they have always had, it seems, some difficulty in that regard).

The GLK was never intended to be a grade-school model UN where earnest students parrot the nostrums of their favorite foreign political parties for a day or so and then pack their books and get on with their real lives. The GLK was supposed to be a government. As a government it was never successful. The Privy Council did not exist at all before January, so they can hardly be blamed for the actions of the first Assembly. Bill’s involvement is not so ancient that he can bear much fault either. Although there are plenty of bitter feelings all the way around, I honestly do not believe that any individual personalities can be credited with what has come of Cato Island. I believe there are other factors at work here, factors that ought to be identified.

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