General Forum > Gay Homeland - General discussions

A Fairytale

<< < (2/3) > >>

Vizier:
Having been away for awhile, reading many of these debates is quite enthralling. As for Jaix's position on Clipperton, much good luck to you. I, too, am for the island approach, although I think there are better ways than trying to persuade selfish and very egotistical France with the idea of separating itself from Clipperton, even though that isle can mean virtually nothing to the mighty French empire (sarcasm intended).

Another option would be to populate an unpopulated island somewhere (much like the Clipperton and "Heaven" ideas), although the location would have to meet a nearly unfathomable number of prerequisites. Among them are not only the basics - water, arable land, access to the rest of the world, possibly some infrastructure. Add to that that in order to truly succeed, the island would truly have to be somewhere no government cared about in the least, which means it would likely be uninhabitable to begin with. Desirable places waiting to be shanghaied really are rare; if you know of any where you are absolutely positive that ideal conditions exist and absolutely no government interference or resistance is likely, please speak up now! Add to the basic needs already listed the need for funding, the ability to publicize and convince GLBT brethren to move there and establish a state from the ground up, not necessarily relying on idealism alone (since idealism is nice but does not fill the belly). And add to those the need to be prepared for disease, possible wildlife attacks, poisonous flora and fauna, as well as infighting and unrest among those moving there.

And realize the sheer immensity of funding such any such project will require! At present, we here have not been successful in the least at even raising sufficient funds here to cover our own relatively puny operating expenses. Most everything you see and read here comes from the pockets of a very few benefactors, primarily Mogul (and, formerly, myself). Barring a major win in some huge lottery system somewhere, I hold little hope for the idea of being able to acquire the base territory and infrastructure needed to quickly and easily establish the ideal starting point for a gay homeland.

It is true that there are sufficiently wealthy GLBT people on this planet and that if some of them could be convinced to part with a small part of their inherited or amassed personal wealth, we might well be on our way to being able to establish an actual colony or first homeland, but this belies the fact that these individuals move in circles where their wealth opens every door for them, enables them to be oblivious to the plight of those oppressed and persecuted brethren, and enables them to ignore the rest of us except when we are needed for some trivial or sexual task. I doubt that asking someone of the stature of, say, a Hormel, for a sizable contribution to a fund for acquiring and establishing a gay colony will meet with more than a snicker or a polite letter telling us we are all mad or worse.

I still feel the preferred method to proceed would be to actively migrate to a nation which may not welcome us with open arms, but will also not chase us away, once they see the investment a gay colony or community could bring. Once any colony has been established successfully, similar tactics to those proposed in the original story here (voting to take over a town, then a county) can be implemented quite effectively and quickly, with stealth  and surprise being of serious tactical advantage and a basic key to success. Once such a toehold has been established, with suitable coaxing, advertising and diligence, the colony could expand, buy more land if needed, and eventually actually embark on the process of secession. If the chosen host nation is suitably weak or disorganized (I'm thinking here of a Central American state, for example, such as Belize, for example), an attempt to secede is unlikely to be seriously challenged by more than rhetoric. The key remains a suitable location, adequate fund raising, publicity and actually following through.

By the way, if anyone really does care, it would be nice to see some of those aforementioned operating costs defrayed by donation. Mogul will be happy to tell you how to make one...

Mogul:
Well, with sufficient ressources on our side, the Gay State could be put practically anywhere on this planet - the international community has proven very tolerant to the use of military force anyway. The problem is, of course, that we do not have the ressources and therefore settling in Somalia or Columbia would, no doubt, indeed have a very tragic end. We must consider therefore the "where to start?" question in first line.

It is of course possible to start occupation of Clipperton (or other empty island) just now, but what for? It is not very probable that any single refugee can find his way to Clipperton by his own means, therefore we need marine vessels to bring our people there - at least from Mexico. Furthermore, we would need operational bases in transit countries like Turkey if we want to pick up our refugees there and transport them over Mexico to Clipperton. I suppose it is clear to you, that such an elaborated system might be easily judged as humane trafficking, should France insist on its rights over Clipperton - and it would probably do so unless we manage to achieve an agreement first. France might not bother to send war ships to Clipperton, but it will certainly initiate steps against all individuals involved in organizatory structures, and it is certainly not in our interests to loose our leading people even before we got started.

It seems clear to me that we must first solve our organizatory problems before we can approach the territorial question at all. The territory is a means to achieve our real goals, namely saving refugees and influencing international politics in our sense. Even if France decided to leave Clipperton to us, would we be actually able to achieve our goals? We must find our way to the hearts of gay folks before.

Jaix:
WE have poured over the world map looking for 'fertile' ground for a Gay State.
Some have mentioned places such as Somalia or other failed states.

The Commonwealth has generally discarded such places for a number of reasons.

1)  In Somalia the Muslims are more than likely going to be VERY hostile to any Gays taking a chunk of tribal or warlord territory.

2)  They only have to walk, hike, stroll with a few grenades and machine guns to work us a hardship

3)   On the world stage, taking land from indigineous peoples can be a real public relations problem

4)   We would surely HAVE TO TAKE IT!

So we are pretty solidly set on Clipperton.

No hostile natives, we know a group can live there, hard for people to get to you, France (Mother of Liberty) is probably not as violent as
say a teed off Somali warlord.  Plus French Polynesia is having stirrings of a probably successful independence movement.  They will most likely
not want a fairly worthless chunk of coral.  Or even if France keeps Clipperton, it has little interest in it practically.
France had detailed plans in the 80's to rehab the island, very practical well thought out, but concluded it was not economically feasible because
it was tooooooo inacessable for tourists to get to.
One of our peoples endearing traits is that we move into "fixer-uppers" and voila!  Real estate prices go up. :=V

But a military force is not in our plans, other than a civil protection and assistance corps (police)
Since this is a very different venture than any other, we want to at least not start out with the same mistakes as the nation states.

K6:

--- Quote from: Mogul on Tue, Jun 20, 2006, 07:53 ---The initial situation is somewhat different, isn't it? I think our situation is somewhat more of the jewish diaspora, probablly even more of the Order of Malta if solely gay separatists are concerned.

--- End quote ---

The initial situation was effectively quite different.But the result was wholly the same,wether we talk here about what constitutes the western part of nowaday`s Poland or of the State of Israël.We both know how the territories concerned were acquired by their present owners.The said territories were not without previous owners,the ones who fled in panic and never returned.

K6

Mogul:

--- Quote from: K6 on Tue, Jun 20, 2006, 03:48 ---My idea of the genesis of a gay independent State was always based on the demise of some previous existing State,not on its consent which then won`t be necessary.A scenario more or less on the lines of the East Prussian,Pomeranian or Silesian one (vintage 1945) as benefited to Poland in its present boundaries.People who know their history shall understand what I mean here.

--- End quote ---

The initial situation is somewhat different, isn't it? I think our situation is somewhat more of the jewish diaspora, probablly even more of the Order of Malta if solely gay separatists are concerned.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page