[..] With independence,direct political association with non-gays - as if we were citizens of a same country - must cease.We can have alliances with non-gays,but only those who physically stand outside some area we have designed for the implementation of a concept of sovereignty. [..]
The problem which I see is, that you (apparently) assume that most straights naturally belong into the enemie's camp. This is not necessary the case. Not every heterosexual is a homophobe, and therefore qualifies as a potential ally, if offered a cooperation. Surelly, being a purist can be a satisfying feeling by times, but it is not very suitable strategy in pursuing some real improvements of life conditions.
@K6:
But you do recognize that whenever two peoples share same territory, they must in some way deal with eachother? Even if accepting the premise that gays and straights are belonging to 2 different states, its not said that they cannot be citizens of one common state at the same time. They can, if they wish - many countries allow dual citizenship.
Therefore I would advocate to allow the dual citizenship as a regular case, with the exception of higher officials, who will have to give up their foreign citizenship. In the regular case, we should seek bilateral agreements for dual citizenship with those countries, who currently do not allow this.
I am ready not to choose between Canada and my people,the gay people.But I am capable of such a choice,on the sound basis of continuity and eternity.
As to the "merceneries": Why "merceneries"? I would say "tactical allies" - it's always the matter of giving and taking. The bargaining is and always has been the daily bread of the politics. You help the Green Party to take nuclear plants from the landscape, they help you to push through the same-sex marriage. You can despise these habits, but they are the only functioning in a democracy. Any conquered terrain must be kept by persisting efforts - sometimes with other tactical allies. I do not think that in the gay state politics would be made any different.
As to the "merceneries": Why "merceneries"? I would say "tactical allies" - it's always the matter of giving and taking.
The treatment we receive from the liberals in certain social-democrat countries is fine.It is probably among the bests we ever had.But we ow it solely to the liberals remaining in political power,not to being ourselves in power.The liberals are wonderfull people.But they could be defeated at the polls or otherwise overthrown. [..]
Exactly - they can loose elections if they are in lack of supportive voices, and then our political enemies inevitably will come to power. Therefore it is possibly not a very good idea to voluntarily withdraw ca. 10% of the overall voices (which form 20% of the liberal-supporting voices) from the elections. No, we should actively participate in the political processes of the countries we are living in - and cooperate with our allies. You know, in the democratic elections the con:lib ratio is very often pending around the mark of 50:50 % and can be shifted to either side by very few percents. Therefore our 10% of overall voices are a very strong power to persuade liberals into supporting our cause. We only should use this power smart and support those parties, who are actually supportive to our cause.
Against political enemies one can apply the "Salami tactics", when you struggle with them for each and every centimeter of the terrain. Just force them to agree into one slight concession and half a year later demand for improvements of the "still unsatisfactory situation". This can bring significant improvements with time, though it is very frustrating to fight over decades for some minor progresses.
It remains that integrationists - I mean assimilationists - have a limited amount time to achieve their goals.Whereas we have all the time,in the expectation of their unavoidable failure,to pursue other aims and further other designs.These,naturally,will have to do with gay self-determination.
K6, I'm eager to discuss your "Code Civil de Homosexuelles" with your proposed definitions of gayness - come on, post them one by one! =))
OK, take all the time you need. :L You could start a new thread and post the code away step by step. It is surelly very interesting - the part with gay duties will be certainly very controversal.
:=SU
According to that plan,I must post four messages in languages other than English before I post one in English.The micronation I am involved in has opted for a decentralized structure of communication,split in as many languages as possible.First,to reach as many gays as possible,90% of the world population not knowing English.Second,to complicate the task of eventual political adversaries.Unlike you within this forum,I do not possess the technical means or competence to lock out trouble makers.It is besides not necessary if I can lock them out of my communication traffic and exchanges with others,by exploiting their weaknesses in international communication and foreign languages.[..]
As to our own adversaries, they would be perfectly able to post their views in this forum following few simple rules of common decency, but out of some ridiculous reasons they insist on using false e-mail adresses and other people's identities.
Polyandry could originate in an issue having to do with public order.I have no precise idea on how we gays would congregate in a situation of political independence and freedom.But disputes could arise between various informal clans or tribes over the possession of this of that most
handsome individual.
P.S. I'm dying to read the novell! :)
K6, you got it completely wrong: in the gay state there will be a perfect order:
1) The country is led by Mogul with iron hand;
2) The most beatifull boys serve Mogul and Vizier as private secretaries and personal guardes;
3) Every freshly immigrated youth below the age of 25 must prove that he is truly gay by accomplishing an extensive naturalization procedure, the quotes being justly distributed amongst the Gay Knights;
4) In case the youth is especially beatifull and therefore further investigation seems necessary to prove his gayness, other Gay Knights must be consulted;
5) see point 2.
As everyone can easily understand, this state system is the only one which would guarantee the country stability and social peace, therefore no serious doubt concerning this system can arise.
It would have to be translated first,for I wrote it in French.It covers 522 pages. [..] A small gay community finds itself alone in the now desolate St.Lawrence valley which was formerly part of Canada.Throughout ensuing events constituting its saga,it shall face all kinds of trials (including an armed conflict).When the history ends 44 years later,the little community of the beginning has become a nation-State. [..]
I do not mind at all about us having harems as a consequence of political independence,a most agreable consequence.But we should avoid pornocracy.Favourites would be there to provide us with entertainment,not with political advice.They should not either receive as a reward
for their services political information on the pillow.Otherwise,it will not be long before we produce our own version of Calligula.
Sounds interesting - why haven't you publish it so far? Beyound all "positive contributions to the gay nationalism movement" this work is probably of certain entertaining value. :) I don't think the world has many nice pieces of literature of this kind - count me as having sent a pre-order!
But of course I can wait untill you have posted away the other 4 obligatory messages in other languages - just let me know when I should look into alt.micrination.politics for a new contribution in English.
[..] Historians of the future will probably regard such earliest separatists gay circles like the GLR or the GPR as starting points of various gay political parties of a corresponding gay independent State,rather than embryos of that State itself. [..]
I neither speak Portuguiese mor do I trust much to the translation machines. :N Being a less complicated man, I am inclined to suggest using English, but I am afraid this will not meet your criterions for political correctness.
[..] Some outstanding and future political leader of our people could be hanging out there,who will not necessarily know English.In this forum,I do not mind at all using all the time or most of the time English.But in the service of my country,the GPR and in alt.politics.micronations,I must do my best to reach out in diverse geographical,cultural and linguistic directions,so as to exploit to the full this new technology of the internet and not miss some opportunity. [..]
You have entirely right, that we should take any possible effort to reach as many people as possible, and using their native languages is certainly an important part of strategie. On the other side, we should not let us be self-bondaged. It is important to take additional efforts to translate significant publications into as many languages as possible, but it is probably not so good an idea to restrict oneself from posting in English. After all, it is certainly more ressource-saving to make a compromise on using one language as a lingua franca
You have already linguistic boards on this forum.You`ve used them in a manner which would not have occured to me at first,by posting material about gay rights from the European Union.Material which is already transated into some languages.I suggess that you pursue onto that path.If you get reactions in French,Spanish or Portuguese,I`ll try to find time to translate them into English.
In january 1991,I met an editor.He read the novel,and found it entertaining from the beginning to the last word.He was ready to publish it.I was not very satisfied though with the contract he was proposing me.So I contacted instead,and in the spring of 1992,the Archives Gaies du Québec,a Montreal based group specializing in gay history and compilation of gay litterature.I wasn`t too sure of their seriousness untill I first met them.These are scolars,either real archivists in professionnal life,or specialized in certain fields of knowledge like among others anthropology.The fate of my novel is now in their hands,for they have a copy of it.The novel is besides under a canadian copyright.[..]
Many non-native English speakers can understand English to a certain degree, but often miss the exact sense or are not very skilled in writing in this language.
You mean this group:
Archives gaies du Québec (http://www.agq.qc.ca/indexen.html)
4067, boulevard St-Laurent, bureau 202
Montréal, Québec H2W 1Y7 Canada
(514) 287-9987
info@agq.qc.ca
Sorry for persistence, but what kind of arrangement have you made with these gentlemen? Are they going to publish the book or is it just shelved in the archive? This would be a pity.
You mean this group:
Archives gaies du Québec (http://www.agq.qc.ca/indexen.html)
4067, boulevard St-Laurent, bureau 202
Montréal, Québec H2W 1Y7 Canada
(514) 287-9987
info@agq.qc.ca
Sorry for persistence, but what kind of arrangement have you made with these gentlemen? Are they going to publish the book or is it just shelved in the archive?
[..] My novel being written in French is of marginal interest so long as it as not been translated.At best,it could be of local use,to gays living in Montreal or in the province of Quebec.It couldn`t be of any use to the GLR or to any other international gay circle.Where I can be of service to other gay separatists is not with my novel,but rather with my reflexions on the subject of gay separatism,and with the connected knowledges I have accumulated on the way and during the last 35 years.I have been a gay separatist almost from the moment heterosexuals first crossed me.
Well, why not make a compillation of your ideas into one piece of work and present it in a publication? I know, it is not an easy task, but a worthy one. Sure, such thing would require time - but Roma also wasn't built over night.
I am most sure that there would be much interest among those who speak French - there are many also in France and Africa. :) Literature is very important, as it not only provides us with joy and pleasure, but also with new ideas. A separatist novell is of course an interesting thing!
So,in this forum,we could accumulate a corpus of debates and political doctrine having to o with gay independence.And from then on,evolve some blueprint for secession from the hethro Empire.
Close friends of mine have read the novel.Generally,they haven`t liked the first part ("The Ghetto"),but they have enjoyed the two others ("The Colony" and then "The Republic").I put myself in the shoes of gay historians of the future,living in political independence,and regarding it as only their due.
That's exactly what we are here for. Even if only few authors have so far contributed to the debates, the opinions about the way and purposes of the gay state vary in a large scope.
Do you appreciate Issaak Asimov? He is one of my favorite SF writers and his works of "Robots"-series have inspired me in my early youth very much. It would be a greate thing we could have some comparable Saga about our gay republic! OK, if someone would love to write a mystic gay kingdom novel, I would read it as well.
[..] A few non-separatist gays may regard us as crackpots.But in general,the "G" element of the LGBT constellation will not oppose gay separatism.Possibly for that reason that gays never accepted heterosexual domination,no matter the odds against them. [..]
When I was young,my preferences went to Jules Verne`s novels.Or to Daniel Defoe`s "Robinson Crusoe".Or to the Belgian "Tintin" cartoons.I enjoyed - and still enjoy - realistic adventure stories,but disliked fairy tales with magical or divine interventions.Science-fiction novels would interest me if the scenario was plausible."Brave new world" was of that kind,and filled me with joy.
Funny, we have similar preferences in literaure. "Robinson Crusoe" is indeed one of my most favored books at all, and Jules Verne was my most loved author in my early youth. I am pretty sure that you will find pleasure in reading Asomovs "Prelude to foundation", "Foundation", "Foundation and Empire" and "Second foundation". It has much of "Realpolitik" in it, indeed I was accused once that my addiction to gay separatism was influenced much by Asimovs works.
:=SU
Most gays, as most humans in generall, are not engaged in political activities, but this of course does not mean that they are desinterested in politics. The interest is there, but lays dormant of some reason or other. The difficulty to organize gays into some kind of non-recreational activity origins mostly from our dispersion, making thus personal contacts connected to additional efforts. It is indeed not very likely that large numbers of gays from Western Europe or North America would leave their jobs and families and emigrate to a new-founded state without developed infrastructure and with low social standarts. But this does not mean that they would be a priory reluctant to organize themselves in communities in their home countries - on an inofficial level this is already happening since decades. In less developed countries, especially with widely spread discrimination against homosexuals, such communities would offer their members not only emotional support, but also additional economical advantages. Everywhere in the world there are uncountable monasteries and religious orders existing, with millions of members, who voluntary live in poverty and dispense with sexual activities. I see no sensible reason why "gay orders" / "gay colonies" which promulgate economical prosperity, allow active sexual live and offer increased safety should be less attractive for our people. The final establishment of a gay state would require a critical mass of citizens, of course - but after its establishment there will be a constant influx of immigrants, this much seems sure.
This world is a place of scarcity.The wealthy and free ountries from a gay point of view are few,the poor and dangerous ones are the rule.Integrationists would have a very weak point in any argument,should the choice of a gay colony and future country existed.
This is certainly true. Whereas a young gay professional in New York, Montreal or Sydney has probably little reason to escape to a gay colony with medium wealth standards and limited job perspectives, the gays and lesbians from Indonesia, Columbia or China would sell their last shirt to buy the airplane ticket to such a colony. The problem what must be solved is the propaganda in poor or oppressive countries: how can we let the homosexuals in these countries know that we exist and give them notice that they will be received with open arms? A pervert way to solve the problem could be to pay a ransom for them to the oppressive governments, but isn't this a dangerous way? I don't know.