GLR Forum
General Forum => Archives etc. => Topic started by: Vizier on Wed, Jun 15, 2005, 02:40
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Hello all. You may not be aware of this, but "his imperial majesty" Dale I of the GLK has it in for us. Apparently our little group's homepages have so offended this stooge that he is threatening a lawsuit against Vicky. His tone, in a barrage of e-mails aimed at trying to get Vicky to back down and recant the information about the dubious founding of the GLK and its claims to "independence," has been abusive and insulting, yet Dale claims he is the one who is being maligned. I will therefore post the full text of my letter to him I wrote today:
Dear "emperor" Dale:
I am the webmaster for the website Gayrepublic.org and am, as such, involved in this threatened legal matter. You should also be aware that Viktor Zimmermann is not aware in advance of what I am writing to you in this e-mail, nor have I discussed this writing with him in advance. Please respond accordingly.
I am currently discussing with Viktor changing the content you so vehemently object to in order to smooth your obviously ruffled "imperial" feathers and allow you to return to "governing" through imperial decree your many millions of subjects on your vast landmass, the Australian-owned island of Cato, which is listed as such in every atlas worldwide and acknowledged as such by every legally and diplomatically recognized government on this planet as of today's date. Far be it from me to disturb your "imperial" days of leisure at the "royal palace" on "Heaven"! Our intent is merely to offer millions of gay people worldwide a truly free, democratic alternative to your organization (which appears to be more fantastic than if Michael Eisner were to declare the combined territories of the Disney "empire" independent tomorrow). Toward that end, our website informs visitors in numerous locations and in several languages of our intent and purpose and also offers numerous disclaimers as to the fact that we do not yet have any territory, but, then again, neither do you, legally and strictly speaking...
We are debating as to how to replace the information you have taken such a strong dislike to with some data that will cause you less ire, but with material which will not deflect from the fact that other sources have supplied Viktor with data which casts doubt upon your operation's true legal standing, its territorial claims and the fact that while you might wish the GLK to be an actual reality, it is thus far no more real than our concept of a Gay & Lesbian Republic. And therein lies the main intent of our history page -- despite all of your legal sabre-rattling and pictures of plaques, you cannot show us an actual photo of yourself and those first few pioneering members of your "privy council" on Cato's beach planting that rainbow flag, now can you?
Most people, I believe, would have supposed that on such a momentous occasion (which your website nearly likens to the second coming of Christ for all gay people worldwide) would have been captured on camera, in still photos and probably with audio soundbytes. Most people would also suppose that such materials would subsequently have been publicized widely not only on your website, but also the world over in an attempt to gather public momentum behind your (spurious) attempts at seizing control of a coral atoll from its rightful owners through dubious legal manoeuvering. However, that does not seem to be the case. Your website lacks such important materials, and I have, after exhaustive searching of the internet, yet to be able to find any photographic or other materials such as those I delineate above anywhere, save for the few photos used on the GLK's website, which are quite obviously taken from the source we indicate on our history page and used without any disclaimer as representing the supposed events you claim took place. As you are not in a position to supply any evidence corroborating the events and dates you claim on the GLK's website, it would appear that your entire effort at having a "land mass" is truly built on "clay feet" as we have asserted.
As an "olive branch" offer, allow me to suggest that I will be happy to modify our content to reflect the incontrovertible facts I have just outlined above.
On the other hand, should you be able to provide us with an actual, unretouched photo of yourself and your landing party planting that rainbow flag on Cato on the date you indicate on your website, we will be happily and immediately moved to change our history page altogether to reflect such evidence.
Allow me to remark that my own dealings with your organization were extremely unsatisfactory and disappointing -- so much so that I (with many others who voiced this opinion in those very Yahoo! chat rooms you deign beneath your "imperial" stature to grace with your presence) began to suspect that your group is running a very suspicious and shaky operation which could, by some, be miscontrued to be a scheme meant to defraud people out of their hard earned cash by selling them citizenship in something nonexistant, the GLK. It is a well-known fact that there are numerous organizations in existance today who make money by preying on unsuspecting individuals seeking stature and exclusivity by offering them worthless, sometimes fraudulent, citizenship in nonexistent nations. Toward that end, allow me to direct your valuable attention to Fake Citizenships and other Scams (http://www.quatloos.com/groups/melchiz.htm) and many other similar websites debunking these schemes.
After I had joined your organization's Yahoo! chat group, I was offered the chance to "purchase" citizenship in the GLK. When I exchanged comments with others in your forum as to how I could purchase something that does and cannot yet (despite all of your jingoistic assertions to the contrary on the GLK's website) exist, I was attacked vehemently by several of your "citizens" and no explanation was forthcoming.
When I also commented that according to Debrett's and various other editions of the rules of peerage a "kingdom" cannot (under any imaginable circumstances) have an "emperor" as its leader, I was again attacked vehemently and with sufficient force for me to immediately end all dealings with your organization.
Shortly thereafter, I joined the GLR as one of its founding members. The GLR, in my humble opinion, has a much more level-headed and legally-sound approach to the foundation of a true, free and democratic gay state, not one based on fantasy and some sort of urge to play dungeons and dragons on a desolate Pacific atoll most people will never see in their lifetimes and which is realistically unable to support any type of human population, seeing as how it lacks any fresh water, a harbor, or any other resources other than an Australian-built and -owned weather station.
I am in possession of copies of some correspondence between you and Viktor, as I am directly involved in this matter because of my position, and must say that for someone who imagines himself of (self-declared) royal stature, you, sir, are about as common as a stick of chewing gum. I also find your personal attacks in various e-mails on Viktors person, including such passages as
"Perhaps you could also add to your web site that you are a lonely, insecure effeminate man that listens to gossip and rumour and you could also inform the world on your web site where your republic is located, I find it fascinating you have a republic but no territory" altogether distasteful, hateful and objectionable and smacking of character assassination.
Have you shared this passage you authored with your solicitor? Did he comment on it and indicate to you that it is absolutely wonderful material for a counterclaim of a personal nature? Were you aware, when you moved your "imperial" hands to type it, that you supplied the world with wonderful insight as to your true character, hateful nature and obvious wish to assassinate the character of others? Did you realize that ths passage alone would be superb material with which to crucify you, the entire Gay Kingdom and all of your "work" to date in the media world-wide? It shows me that you are not in the least bit interested in the welfare of all gay people, but only in the interest of a select handful (likely those who can purchase citienship and supply you with additional income), which is directly contradictory to your organization's stated purpose.
Said comment also shows me that you never really read our web materials well, as we state up front that we do not yet have a territory and that that is part of our goal -- to find a place without shenanigans such as proclaiming the dubious (and still not recognized) independence of a coral atoll which cannot sustain any kind of human habitation. Were your "kingdom" or "empire" (which is it now, you really should decide on one or the other?!) acknowledged diplomatically on the world stage by only one other legitimate government, it would have some credence, but as it currently is nothing more than wishful thinking of a few misguided commoners wishing to obtain noble rank without the requisite breeding and background, it seems to me that you are hardly in a position to be criticizing our efforts, seeing as how your doing so lends credence to the old adage about pots calling kettles black...
As a German-born Freiherr or Baron who can trace his lineage back to the year 1039 with documented, published proof and a title to boot, I find your pretentious, unwarranted and technically illicit usage of the title of "emperor" not only ridiculous, demeaning, distasteful and arrogant, but also indicative of someone with an insecure social background attempting to embellish or amplify his status socially. In other words, I feel that you are what the British have for generations referred to as a cad, bounder, and climber. In America we refer to your type as "wannabe," "goldbricker" and "gold-digger."
Have you ever informed your solicitor and "citizenry" of your habit of comparing yourself with the likes of Queen Elizabeth II. of Great Britain, as you do in the following passage? Or with the duly-elected Chancellor of Germany, an acknowledged, real nation-state, not one of your creation which is less real and honest than our nascent concept of the GLR?
"I have posted very few messages on yahoo and these have always been messages of national importance not messages that respond to gossip...the Chancellor of Germany would not respond to web site gossip, nor would the Queen of England, and I do not intend to either."
I look forward to hearing from you what exactly your next course of intended action is. I estimate that you are someone who needs to rethink his approach to life in general and should most likely be seeking active psychiatric care. I find that fact that you are willing to squander your proceeds from the sale of two FM radio stations on pursuing legally a nascent organization such as ours for impugning the integrity which you, as outlined above, lack altogether in the first place, very revealing. Were I a licensed psychiatrist, I would indubitably draw the conclusion that you are an insecure person of mean intelligence who is prone to self-aggrandizement and seeks confirmation of personal worth through exploitation of the hopes and dreams of the oppressed and persecuted minorities world wide. As I am not a licensed psychiatrist, I can only conclude that the old adage "a food and his money are soon parted" obviously must be applicable to your person, as only a fool would wish to squander his personal wealth on litigation such as that you are threatening to bring against us.
Allow me also to state at this juncture that if any suit is forthcoming, it will be answered in kind and through legal representation of a much larger caliber than you might anticipate or your property solicitors in Australia might be able to deal with effectively.
Best regards,
Franz Peter Weeren von Werne zu Raffenberg, 41st Freiherr von Werne
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Isn't it interesting that when it comes to "damages" perceived by this complete fool, his imperial ridiculousness resorts to Australia's legal system? I wonder if people involved in the GLK are aware of what a coward, cad, bounder and fool they have at their helm, which may explain why they are scared of the GLR, why they are trying so hard to intimidate us. Here is the answer just received from this fool. Spelling is altogether his. I think my previous assertions are being borne out.
Dear Sir,
Thank you for your e-mail, I regret to inform you that this matter is now out of my hands and is in the hands of my legal team here in Brisbane, Australia as the complaint has now been lodged.
My lawyers are certain that several of Mr. Zimmermanm's comments are libelous, without question toward me and my involvement, and are based on several facially
obvious lies. Practically every statement on the Gay Republic web site is false and has no other purpose than defamation of others, and as such I am sure those who wrote the site will learn these statements are not privileged nor condoned by law.
It is the belief of my legal team that the language used on the site is clearly intended to be malicious, and unless an apology is publicly stated on your web site informing those who read the site that some of the information contained in its pages are false, incorrect, and based on lies, rumour and gossip I will be proceeding with what ever my lawyers may recommend.
As stated this matter is now out of my hands, thank you for your assistance in this matter, all I ask is that Mr Zimmerman remove his comments and posts a message of an apology on his web site.
I have no hard feelings towards him personally or to you, I wish Mr Zimmermanm and all his supporters the very best of luck with what you are trying to achieve with your republic, I know first hand how difficult and stressful a task it can be, I personally had hoped that the Coral Sea Islands could have became a republic rather than a Kingdom but this was not possible because of the Australian Court system.
The GLK does not defame others nor does it defame Mr Zimmermanm or those who support him, why he is doing this to me is something I find hurtful and confusing. He has never spoken to me until I emailed him a few days ago, asking him to remove the offending material from his site. If he had issues or problems or questions about the GLK all he needed was to ask me personally for clarification or documentation and I would have gladly forwarded him copies, this he has not done.
I ask that he remove all reference to the GLK from his www.gayrepublic.org site we have no reference to this site on our gay kingdom site nor do I allow anyone to be degrade or humiliated publicly on the site.
I my have another planed appointment this Friday June 17th at 10am with my lawyers here in Brisbane and will be following their legal advice on this matter, unless a public apology is posted on the gay republic web site and the offending material is removed Mr Zimmermanm can expect to face the full force of the Australian Law and will be required to meet any damages that the court’s impose.
Dale Parker Anderson
Comments: Australia's courts have jurisdiction only in Australia, Dale. And with all the material you bombarded Viktor with, we have more than enough to answer and call your bluff. I love his "legal team" references. What a buffoon!
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Dear Peter,
thank you for your support. I have had a little amusing day answering Dale's numerous e-mails and trying to resolve the problem in a sensible way, because contrarily to Dale's assumption I am not intended to devote my entire live to damaging of his reputation. Unfortunately, Dale insisted on completely removing all critical remarks about him. This wish could not be granted. Dale has made several mistakes in connection with the GLK, one of them was providing "borrowed" pictures to the public. Upon violent discussions in the GLK yahoo group and when it became impossible to deny the fact, he finally admitted that mistake and apologized to the Privy Council (interestingly, not to the gay people). I think any man of honor would recognize his mistake and bear consequences, but Dale is intended to forget as quickly as possible and to law-suit people who remember him of his past faults. The said threats of legal actions against me came few days after the Privy council published fresh pictures of Dale's trip to Cato, as there finally was some kind of proof in their hands.
I do not want to make this drama a big politicum here, as it is really not serving interests of the GLBT community. We should proceed with our own business and let the GLK not steal our time, guys. There is enough real work to do. I will make a compillation of my correspondence with Dale to let you know what it's all about.
@ Peter: I had my reasons when I voted for the maintenance of a bad-word list, honey! And heartily thanks you for quick help, my friend!
@ Feral and KT: Many thanks to you guys as well, for your support and advice! It helped me not to make something I could regret later. ;D
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he states that he doe not allow anyone to be hummuliated or degraded on his website, that is joke, they did it to me, what an jerk, oh well, just forget him, lets move on....
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So, here is a link to the compillation of the said e-mail exchange: http://de.geocities.com/vanrozenheim/GLK/lawsuit_GLK.htm
Just read and forget :) as we should not let them press us to do what they want. We will proceed with our work and not let us be driven by the anger over GLK's officials. This was our first confrontation with someone, in future more serious conflicts may come to us. I think about the possibility that some militant homophobes could also write to us and promise not just a law-suit, but some physical violence and the like. It will be necessary to stay cool and not let them disturb us.
Hugs, Vicky
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I have read everything that he wrote, and do I believe a word he said NO. but your right. lets forget and move on, let them play and we shal do real work to get a safe place for gay people.
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A fool is a fool is a fool.
In this case, I declare first, that all of the following is my proofed, but personal opinion.
I state - and again, this is my personal responsibility - the following:
Dale Parker Anderson is a liar (*) a defrauder (*) and thief.
Dale Parker Anderson has written an email to me, warning me about the "clear breech of copy right" because of the use of the rainbow flag on my site, and claimed that he owns the copyright. He also tried to blackmail me, or at least he tried to set me under pressure, to remove said flag. Otherwise he would like to sue me. HE MAY.
As a normal human being I honestly don't know why he forgot to take his drugs.
There is no more warning towards the GLK needed. They have too much money left, I guess.
On a personal note: The staff of Gay Newsboard had have a very good laugh that day that "Daleism" cames into the mailbox. Fun. Really.
Do you know the difference between a fool, and idiot and a clown ? No? Ask Dale... he should be able to speak out of experience.
Has anyone taken offense now - except Dale? Okay, there I have aimed at :D
Gunnar
(*) can be proofed by any legal means.
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OK, guys, I think it is enough now. Dale may have his mistakes and he also has written me ugly e-mails (very close to blackmail), but there is no need to kick a lying man once more. Please-please-please be polite, even if you want say clear words. It is true that Dale performs complete foolish actions, but to say he is a fool is clearly not polite. ;D As Dale is not member of this forum, he also has no direct possibility to reply in this thread (he might, of course, do it in the Café). I am sure he is wonderfull son, cousine, brother and whatever... This does not change the factum that he is rather an incapable Emperor.
Anyone here who wishes to kick me for suppression of free speech and a teacher-like habits? Just try! I never object you having an opinion, as long as this opinion is very close to my own! ;D ;D ;D
(http://de.geocities.com/vanrozenheim/images/gruft012.gif)
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You know, Dale is a twit. I emailed him and let him know why the kingdom is doomed to failure, just before I terminated my subscription to The Lebian & Gay Kingdom Y! Group. He lacks leadership skills, drive, as well as vision. A complete waste of my time... the only good thing to come of it was Vicky's email.(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/w/wave.gif) I should've known it was going to be corrupt when I did the research on that Notary Public, William whatever-his-middle-initial-is Freeman, who is trying to pass himself off as a lawyer. He's that Group's WebMaster, which is the only reason I toned down my originally scathing post (without bad words, hehehe). *sigh* Just rotten.
(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/s/sarcasm.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/m/mwahaha.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/w/wink.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/w/winkrazz.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/w/w00t.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/c/chew.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/s/shakefist.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/l/love.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/b/bow.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/a/animesweat.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/l/laughing.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/e/eek.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/l/lmao.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/x/xd.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/g/giggle.gif)(http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/d/disbelief.gif)
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While it hardly matters, Mr. Freeman really is liscenced to practice law in the state of Alabama. A civil law notary is a variety of lawyer peculiar to the states of Alabama and Florida. Civil law notaries should not be confused with notaries public, which are quite another beast all together.
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Ach je, Bill got lost his other occupation - Dale dismissed him from his offices as "Chief Justice" and "Lord Chancellor"... ;D Poor Bill, he's back to the stand of commoners! Probably, he never imagined this could ever happen to him. Unless Bill and the GLK's parliament will declare "His Imperial Majesty" to be unable to sign anything due to his agitable mind, they are indeed all out of business. The most person to feel pity for is probably the last LP Jon Matlick, who indeed believed into the project till the end.
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Well one does hate to gloat too much over Dale's and Bill's difficulty......
The GLK ex government finds itself in the same situation I did some month's past. ;D
I told them time and again that they needed a foundation for doing business, and too much power was in too few hands.
For the life of me I can't understand why Jon M would still keep company with that looney bin! I think he was earnest in his work for the GLK.
I feel sorry for all the "citizens" now left in a heap.
Trouble is, the GLK has given everybody concerned a black eye. :-[
The GLK is dead....RIP
Light the funeral pyre....and me without a big drum of petrol :'(
Jaix
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Jon made his decisions knowing the lacks of the system and involved individuals. I just suppose that he has seen a chance to bring the GLK forwards that times, this was his judgment of the situation. Maybe the influence of Bill has played certain role (who for sure has visions and can be very charismatic by times), or Jon just didn't consider our efforts of any better prospectives that those of the GLK.
It's a weird joke of history that Dale, who scarcelly participated in debates on the GLK forum and rather brought damage to the GLK by his foolish actions, that this person indeed regards himselfe as the most important individual in the group, and in the posession of the moral right to dismiss others, who have done the real work all the time. Poor Jon, his talents are wasted with this "Emporer".
I'm interested in the outcome of this struggle for competences. Unlike the crisis in April 2005, the "dismissed" officials are in the posession of the administrative rights of the both internet domains and the yahoo-group. They can easily prohibit Dale from participating in the future debates and keep the business as usuall. Also Bill and Enrique were smart enough not to react by any overhasted actions, instead they are obviously trying to get the parliamentarians together and pass an ordinance by majority.
Still, what options do they have now? Without Dale there is no further need or "right" to claim Cato for the GLK, therefore they will loose the territory (Bill founded his whole legal argumentation on the necessety to have Dale to justify the occupation of that reef). Should they let Dale as a king, they will encounter the same problems every 2 or 3 monthes again and again, as he seems not able to work with other human beings for longer time. Besides, who would stay there now??? It's just a waste of time and ressources, and any sensible individual should find many better ways to serve the GLBT people.
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I think we ought to look on the bright side of this. Humptey Dumptey can not be put back together again!
But it will be interesting to see the death throes.
I don't believe that there is a Parliament left in the GLK. Apparently even their citizens aren't interested in carrying on. But how can they even use citizenry authorization for a new government when they have denied that that was the raison d'etre for the GLK. THEIR authorization was Dale as the head of state. Now they are headless.
Meanwhile the Commonwealth intends to keep salvaging the remains of the old kingdom. Humptey Dumptey may have broken his shell.....but he'll make a tasty omelet!
But we won't have the entertainment!
Jaix
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Jaix, what ugly and spitefull character you indeed are! ;D ;D ;D
Though, I must confess that I feel pity not for all individuals involved.
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Viktor!
You know I am quite vain! I'll have to be pretty on the outside and ugly on the inside!
I tried being pretty inside and it didn't work. I apologised to Bill, Dale and Enrique about being happy that the old kingdom had landed in the mud. Dona Alba thought it would be good politics to do so.
I have to say, after I got some replies, it was a bad idea.
I have absolutely NO SYMPATHY for the former "Lord Chancellor", "Emperor", or "President of the Parliament-Prime Minister-now Lord Protector". I do have sympathy for Jon and the citizens left in the lurch.
Also I do not think it is unkind to salvage as much as possible from the old kingdom. West Germany did the same with East Germany when it folded. Nations can sometimes be like a school of fish. Big fish eat little ones. Burrrrp! Excuse me! Carrion anyone?
;)
Jaix
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Did I miss anything? I din'd know Enrique was appointed to be the Lord Protector!? I must have a serious talk with our chief of intelligence - I like to be informed first-hand! ;D
Well, nations consist of people, and as long as noone invested money into luxurious hotels on Cato, there is no obvious reason to insist on this islet. Clipperton is as good as any other territory to be "rightfully claimed". I don't think that there is much to be stolen from the GLK group - the 700 addresses probably are not of such tremendous use. The people belonging to them obviously do not care much about what will happen with the GLK - there was not public outcry, only few sarcastic reactions.
But we will see. I am confident that the idea of the gay nation is alive and kicking, but some illusions are gone, that's for true. A steady effort, learning from the old mistakes, has better chances to succeed - if not in the next couple of years.
Regards, Vicky
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Victoria,
Yep, when Jon left, he mentioned that Enrique would succeed him as Lord Protector. I congratulated Enrique, but told him that he should give up the other titles so as not to appear greedy. :D
While I'm here...and since it is your nickel...does anybody else know how Don is doing? He hasn't replied to any of my mail.
Don, if you're out there...drop me a line, please.
Another question....Greg, got this question going in the Commonwealth, "What song is appropriate for a national anthem for us (Commonwealth)?" I am not that musical...only thing I can play is the stereo! ;)
Any of you gentlemen have a good one? If you say, "I Will Survive". I'll hurt you! :P
Any ideas?
Also, are then any Lesbian republicans in here? Just curious.
And you know what that does to cats
Jaix
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In all honesty, I was quite fond of "I Am What I Am". That said, the best serious suggestion I've heard was "Jupiter" from Gustav Holst's Planets Suite. It would, however, be infinitely preferable for the Commonwealth to commision the composition of a new piece of music.
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Jaix,
I don't know where you got that. I have not communicated with you since you left the "old kingdom" and I have made no public statements regarding anyone assuming the position of "Lord PRotector". You must have misunderstood something or someone else made such a statement.
Jon
Victoria,
Yep, when Jon left, he mentioned that Enrique would succeed him as Lord Protector. I congratulated Enrique, but told him that he should give up the other titles so as not to appear greedy. :D
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I would agree with that.
It would, however, be infinitely preferable for the Commonwealth to commision the composition of a new piece of music.
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A warm welcome to Jon! :R
I am glad that we finally got together here to communicate our thoughts and discuss the manifold topics. Time will heal many of the old wounds, and I am confident that we can keep our different opinions over past differences (in future some new may come), but still treat eachother friendly and with due respect.
Now we shall look into future developement and try to avoid traps where others were caught in the past. It's important to analize the reasons of any unfortunate developements critically and try to make things in a better way, if possible. As non of us is in the posession of the final truth, a sound sensitivity to the ideas of the opponent will do us all a greate favor.
Little and carefull steps they will be, but hopefully to a bright future!
@ Jaix: my favorite is "Go West" in Pet Sop Boys' performance, but you would be indeed well-advised to get something written specially for the Commonwealth. A kind'a gay Marselliese? :)
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Hello all... sorry for my long absence; I went through a lot in recent months and am now in a slightly better place (mentally and otherwise), although unemployed. I am glad Viktor called for some decorum on the topic of His Imperial Crackpottedness, Dale I., King and Emperor of Nothing. He sent me some Nastigrams to while I was still in Vermont that were so obviously self-authored in an attempt to intimidate me, but I had to laugh very hard at most of them (and then immeidately dispatch them into the big e-mail graveyard in the sky).
Basically, I agree with Viktor here - let's just ignore him or be polite about him, even if we do snicker behind his back (with our polite little hands raised to shield his view of our guffaws and kneeslapping). :+
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In all honesty, I was quite fond of "I Am What I Am". That said, the best serious suggestion I've heard was "Jupiter" from Gustav Holst's Planets Suite. It would, however, be infinitely preferable for the Commonwealth to commision the composition of a new piece of music.
I actually agree. By choosing a familiar disco tune, we stereotype ourselves. We have to bear in mind that what we are trying to do here is largely going to be passed on to a future generation, and we wouldn't want to turn them off by our choice of anthem, flag, etc. As for the flag, I had originally come up with one which Vicky pronounced dreadful (It had the equal symbol bursting through chains on a solid blue background, thus indicating our will to burst though inequality... how lofty!) I think using the rainbow flag is also presumptuous; there are and will be many organizations like ours out there that will come and go and for us to try to lay claim to ownership over the rainbow flag would be too bold and offensive to many others. So, a flag is also needed.
However (and it's a really big 'butt'!) ;D all of that is premature! We are putting the cart before the horse, which is what the good people at GLK let themselves be led into.
First, let's get the foundation off the ground legally. That's something Gunnar, Vicky and I have now been working on (haphazardly, I'm the first to admit; life seems to interfere wherever it can) since Day 1, and we are so close we should do this now.
That said, we need 7 people to come forward (well, four if you count the three just mentioned) to be the signatories on the founding papers... that means that four of you who have joined us recently should consider this step - it means that we will have actually moved from a little chat group with big plans to a legal entity which can go about its business and actually pick up where the GLK failed and move this movement forward. In the interest of fairness, we should definitely be looking for at least one or two lesbian friends to join us as founding members, in order to ensure input equality from "both sides" of the issue. Obviously someone who is bi- or trans- and feels they want to be a part of history is welcome too. Our original purpose was and is to be as all-encompassing and -welcoming as possible!
After we have achieve founding status as a legal entitiy, then we concentrate on membership building. Strength lies in numbers.
A flag, an anthem, a place to call our own - all of those come way down the list! If you look at my posts about possible locations for an eventual homeland, please note my use of the work "eventual" in all of them - the steps to get to owning our own homeland and the steps to independence are all laid out on the website! Rushing everything out of order is counterproductive.
Now Vicky can kill me for having spilled my guts here and probably let various cats out of various bags, :R but I just see a tone here of excitement, which is very very good, but all of it sort of unbridled, which is not so good. Channel the excitement and with it we will move mountains, time and politics!
Enough pontificating. :+
Vizier
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He-he, what "cats" are you talking about? ;D You don't mean the ongoing registration, don't you? This is not that kind of confidential any more, as we are in goode stand now. I hope we will be able to register within the next two weeks, as the documents are very close to completion. Then they will be made public, of course.
This is an open forum, therefore not everyone is member of our organization, this to be mentioned for clarification. All interested parties are heartly invited to discuss our common goal in this forum, but do not necessarily identify themselve with our organization. To become a member of the association, formal aplication is still required.
Jaixs is the Prime Minister of a "concurrent" project called Gay and Lesbian Commonwealth Kingdom. We welcome him and his camerades to share their views on the matter with us and to look for a cooperation to realize our common goal.
Newertheless, our official position remains that it's a bit early to proclaim any form of souvereignity at the current time point.
Jon was the last Lord Protector of the GLK, and is free first to orientate himselfe with us. He didn't declare so far that he has left the GLK therefore any assumptions of his illoyalty towards the "old kingdom" are slightly premature as well. :) By the way, an official statement from the GLK's parliament is still outstanding and it is not clear at the moment, whether their dismissed officials are inclined to abide to Dale or make some deviant efforts.
This much told, I agree to 100% percent that we would be glad to welcome all the interested individuals in our group and continue the initial effort by more appropriate means.
As for the flag, the rainbow woud be my favorite :R at any times. Maybe slightly modified by placing some additional symbols in the upper left corner? Sickle and hammer, or lesbian axe? Or the eagle as a symbol reminding us of the Ganymedes legend?
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Well I must be getting old....
I thought in your announcement, Jon, when you were stepping down as LP, that you said Enrique was going to be LP. Sorry if I misquoted you. Wasn't intentional. I usually read everything on the old kingdom that is written with gusto.
Like I said, I'm not in the least musical. So I was just asking friends for ideas. The whole anthem thing took me by surprise. Greg Almodovar, our Secretary, thought of it. I see it as a chance to market or catch people's eye (or ear). But Greg was twiddling his thumbs and wanted to do it. I thought the committee for the Constitution/Duarchs had their section all done and ready to be presented. But Dona Alba wanted some changes. Oh well :'(
Getting late--or early gotta go
Jaix