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Author Topic: International gay cooperation and solidarity  (Read 8485 times)

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K6

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Re: International gay cooperation and solidarity
« Reply #8 on: Wed, Feb 08, 2006, 13:29 »


The answer probably depends on whether a souvereign gay entity will be established, or not. A gay state designed as a modern society would need an entire framework of legislation, with threshold values for dangerous immissions, with detailed penalties for theft, cheque fraud, fire-raising and the like. Independently, an ethical code or set of conventions must exist - to give an individual an ethical guildance. Such an ethical code would be of greate use also for any isolated gay individual, who is subject of "heterosexual" laws in his country of residence.

 

We have to contemplate three scenarios.

The first is the absence of a gay independent State,and the total lack of previous experience in statehood and statecraft.This corresponds to the present times in which we are living.

The second scenario,which would have to be contemplated already in some future time when we would have an independent State of our own,
would be its downfall.Either for general historical reasons,as happens to heterosexual States.Or for reasons having to do with our eventual incapacity to tender to our own particular demographic situation.Whatever we establish as a State structure will not be above what happened
to previous such structures.We are no better than heterosexuals in that respect.And we have particular problems which heterosexuals don`t have,and for which there exist no real historical experience.

The third scenario would be a "Vichy" gay State,having become a puppet of some hethro Empire or regime,no longer representing our interests,
and using in fact its name and apparatus to undermine the said interests.

In those three scenarios,sovereignty has to find some repository other than a State.There is nothing extraordinnary in that.The Poles did it during WWII.France`s general De Gaulle proceeded on similar lines after the defeat of his country in 1940.The Poles as a group,or general De Gaulle as an individual,never accepted foreign domination.The normal repository of gay sovereignty in the absence of a State,if we were better organized politically,would have been the gay people itself.We will probably have to rest content with the individual,because it`s only to the efforts of the individual that we ow our existence.The individual cannot represent the will of the people.But he can represent its interests,provided that the said interests are well defined.And from that point on,he can evolve a course of action and a code of conduct.Just read the War Memories of
general De Gaulle,and this should be perfectly clear.

A gay code of political conduct,besides defining the distinct interests of the gay people,has little to invent.Mostly,it can borrow from historical examples and political science.Machiavelli is an excellent author for that matter: read his book "The Prince".So is de Gaulle with his War Memories.
Another excellent author on Statecraft is Henry Kissinger,with his book titled "Diplomacy".Such is the life of a gay separatist: it consists merely in studying,in order to know in detail how heterosexual organized societies function and interact.

K6

K6

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Re: International gay cooperation and solidarity
« Reply #7 on: Wed, Feb 08, 2006, 00:59 »


The prize question is, whether any further developed legislation of an actual or imaginated gay entity can serve as ethical guildlines for an isolated gay individual? Or do we perhaps need our own religion/faith?

 

We are in need of a secular political faith in ourselves.If we have made it since the origins of mankind,why should be believe in anybody else ? Or in anybody`s else intervention to saveguard our interests ?

K6

Mogul

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Re: International gay cooperation and solidarity
« Reply #6 on: Tue, Feb 07, 2006, 22:53 »

Certainly, ethical guildance is an essential need of many gays, espeacially when they are very young. The normative heterosexual moral often puts a young gay individual into conflict with his inner nature and his very wants and desires. The 3 monoteist religions of the "western world" clearly condemn homosexuality as a sin, but are often incorporated by gay youth as a basis for any ethically correct behaviour. It appears to me that these religions cannot build the moral basis for any self-accepting, conscious and proud gay identity.

The prize question is, whether any further developed legislation of an actual or imaginated gay entity can serve as ethical guildlines for an isolated gay individual? Or do we perhaps need our own religion/faith?

This question is not so easy to answer, as it may seem at the first. On one hand, the entire modern legislation serves solely to the purpose of regulating relationships/conflicts between natural persons, legal entities and the state. The ethical assessement of any action/behaviour is not relevant for the criminal or civil legislation. On the other hand, religious scriptures (partially) were initially set up as civil and penal codices, and e.g. Sharia is still practisized in some countries. What historical models shall we envision now if we are considering establishing a codex for the gay civilization?

The answer probably depends on whether a souvereign gay entity will be established, or not. A gay state designed as a modern society would need an entire framework of legislation, with threshold values for dangerous immissions, with detailed penalties for theft, cheque fraud, fire-raising and the like. Independently, an ethical code or set of conventions must exist - to give an individual an ethical guildance. Such an ethical code would be of greate use also for any isolated gay individual, who is subject of "heterosexual" laws in his country of residence.

But who shall write such a codex? Who can claim of himself the very knowledge of what is good and what is evil for a gay creature? Who can accomplish such a magnificent piece of work to give the eternal truth to a population of currently 500 millions, and billions of their successors? I do not know such an intellectual giant, who could perform this task on his/her own. It is also clear, that many ethical questions do not allow simple answers, and different philosophers would offer different solutions for the same ethical problem.

And here we come to the key point of the discussion. Not a single work should form our "Gay Scripture", but a collection of selected works of different philosophers - be it works of K. H. Ulrichs, "16 Propositions" of M. Denneny or just the fervent speeches of L. Kramer. A Code, as you suggest it, can become an essential part of such a compillation, but it cannot replace it - complex problems (such as ethical worldview of any particular gay individual) require complex solutions.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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Re: International gay cooperation and solidarity
« Reply #5 on: Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 07:41 »


Therefore it is logical, that local LGBT communities can make a lot of work for their benefit through their own organizations, without having the lable "state".

The basic element we have in permanence and are certain to retain is the gay individual.His association with other gays represents less a certainty,
and constitutes another level a bit higher and more hypothetical.In a certain number of countries,it is possible for gays to congregate and associate openly.In many it is not.There should exist basic tasks and duties for the gay individual,regardless of the fact that there may or may not exist some gaymeeting place or organization in the area he lives.A gay could find himself and at times without a community or organization.But he should at no time be left without a set of political rules of conduct or instructions.

K6

Mogul

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Re: International gay cooperation and solidarity
« Reply #4 on: Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 06:10 »

3) Anything we try to establish now will be parallel to existing heterosexual State organizations.It may encompass tasks and procedures which do not require a State apparatus for their implementation.Like for instance the drafting and implementation of a definition of who is gay.Such a deed,not constituting yet a physical action,will not lend itself at being stopped by some other physical action.

The territorial state is just one organization amongst others. The purpose of the state varies from country to country, and in many countries former typically governmental jobs are assigned to private enterprises. The maintenance of the post, television, streets, railways, nuclear power stations, research, medical care, public education, social security and communal infrastructure - all these things are manageable as well by the state as by private organizations. In some countries even public security and penal system are in private hand.

Therefore it is logical, that local LGBT communities can make a lot of work for their benefit through their own organizations, without having the lable "state". At least in countries with moderate freedoms this way is the most promising to further real economical and cultural developement. Those with money can invest in support of the "gay-communal" small business, and commercial and non-commercial culture can exist side on side.

Such local structures come close to Jeff's "colonies concept", though any actual network can function also as K6's "parallel" concept.

A global cooperation is highly desireable and in parts already existing, as some gay businessmen were smart enouph to invest money into gay tourism industry in e.g. Thailand. Recent donation from Elton John to a Nepalese gay rights activist group BDS is a honorable example of private cross-continental help. However, a results oriented support through an organization like ILGA might be of additional benefit, as such an organization has certainly more experience and detailed knowledge of local situations than a private person. The objection that one head organization is only for the benefit of the "apparatschiks" is a foolish one, as search and anylysis of request for donation and control of the investments is a true job, which must be sensibly paid for. Greenpeace and many other organizations prove that even global jobs can be successfully performed by NGOs.

If we additionally manage to gain some additional souvereignity with years, the prospectives of cooperation seem very good.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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Re: International gay cooperation and solidarity
« Reply #3 on: Mon, Jan 23, 2006, 10:54 »

Gay separatists/separationists are at present not organized properly: to this day there is no serious entity formally existing. Any effort into this direction should be started rationally and on the least common basis - administration of activities and resources. The internet can be widely used for discussions and place for information, the activities as such should be performed in the real world, of course. The proposed organization can devote itself to further elaboration of possible strategies for gay self-determination and popularization of the idea as such. With time, a camp and a permanent settlement could be established for experimental purposes (just a suggestion). 

1) Action on site alone counts.The internet is only the place to exchange information about experimentation in different places and under
various conditions,by gays living in different countries.

2) Trying to establish now a gay independent State does not represent a proximate and realistic goal.

3) Anything we try to establish now will be parallel to existing heterosexual State organizations.It may encompass tasks and procedures which do not require a State apparatus for their implementation.Like for instance the drafting and implementation of a definition of who is gay.Such a deed,not constituting yet a physical action,will not lend itself at being stopped by some other physical action.

4) Nationalism is premature,and might not correspond exactly to what we are.It is a romantic idea,good to whip up the passions of people including gays.But it might prove to be only the icind on the cake,whereas our idea is to bake a cake (= a State like organization).We might
be something more than a nation,for there exist international aspects and also assets of ours which cannot be neglected by us in a struggle for self-determination.

5) Upon experimentation on site and in everyday life,and following exchanges of results,different trends of thinking may appear which may
correspond to future and different gay political parties.As for myself,I am only a gay separatist,not really a gay nationalist despites appearances
to the contrary.I may seem at times passionate,but it s because I am familiar with political propaganda.

K6

Mogul

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Re: International gay cooperation and solidarity
« Reply #2 on: Mon, Jan 23, 2006, 09:11 »

The international cooperation of gays and lesbians has made certain progresses in the last years. I refere here to a particularly successfull organization called "International Lesbian and Gay Association", operating in 90 countries and representing more than 400 member organizations. The website of the organisation is: http://ilga.org/ (a funny pro-adoption TV ad is also available here).

Gay separatists/separationists are at present not organized properly: to this day there is no serious entity formally existing. Any effort into this direction should be started rationally and on the least common basis - administration of activities and resources. The internet can be widely used for discussions and place for information, the activities as such should be performed in the real world, of course. The proposed organization can devote itself to further elaboration of possible strategies for gay self-determination and popularization of the idea as such. With time, a camp and a permanent settlement could be established for experimental purposes (just a suggestion). 
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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International gay cooperation and solidarity
« Reply #1 on: Sun, Jan 22, 2006, 16:39 »

The gay separatist group I have the honour of representing in the alt.politics.micronations usenet group has published today january 22,2006 and in Message # 29 of its sector of activity in English a sort of introduction to the notion of international gay cooperation and solidarity.The discussion  may continue in the present forum.That discussion is openned to English speakers,as well as to native Spanish and French speakers either by way of the proper subdivision (multilingual section) of the present forum,or in alt.politics.micronations.

K6
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