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Read "Sixteen Propositions" by Michael Denneny in our online-Library!
 http://library.gayhomeland.org/0003/EN/index.htm

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Author Topic: Denney 9: Gay politics is a politics of pure principle  (Read 2764 times)

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K6

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Re: Denney 9: Gay politics is a politics of pure principle
« Reply #6 on: Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 08:09 »

Trust is an essential component of relationships between humans and entire peoples. But it can only sustain, if these partners lay down hostile attitudes against eachother and cooperate in some way, be it trade relations or political alliances. Such fruitfull cooperation and mutual benefit are able to enlarge the mutual trust.

Heterosexuals and gays can get along perfectly well,which is the case in my own area (province of Quebec,Canada).But the peace this entails is
like the one between the dog and the cat of a same houselhold.The dog won`t chase this cat he lives with,but once outside the house will chase
all other cats.The dog and the cat of a same houselhold are compelled to live in peace by the situation of plenty they find there.

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Re: Denney 9: Gay politics is a politics of pure principle
« Reply #5 on: Wed, Jan 25, 2006, 04:38 »

I think that it is very helpfull to trust eachother, if one is intended to live side by side. Especially when two hostile peoples live on the same territory, it is a common habit of the peacemakers to perform some actions to teach contrahents to trust eachother at least a little bit. In German it's called "vertrauensbildende Massnahmen" - "trust forming political measurments" (?).

Trust is an essential component of relationships between humans and entire peoples. But it can only sustain, if these partners lay down hostile attitudes against eachother and cooperate in some way, be it trade relations or political alliances. Such fruitfull cooperation and mutual benefit are able to enlarge the mutual trust.

Unfortunately, some developements of overwhelming power can disturb such peacefull living side-by-side, especially if these developements are initiated by people who profit rather from mutual adversities than from the peace. In our case, we have not only to deal with ignorant straights who we can persuade of our being equally nice, but in first line with powerfull religious groups, who count homophobia to their essential ideologies. These groups instigate hostility against us since millenia and have mighty political allies, which is understandable. Wherever one looks to in the world, theocracy is a wide-spread phenomenon.

Now, we are not the only victims of these theocrates - the moderate lefts, the liberals and the scientists are on our side. These groups have nothing to fear from us, and we have nothing to fear from them. It is by times difficult to urge them to any actual action for our support, but it's possible.

In one point I must disagree with Denneny - the claim that we do not demand financial support is obsolet. We do nowadays - by receiving communal money for LGBT-related social projects, for marriage-related benefits and so on. And this is fine with us - as taxpayers we have no reason to be humble. I always was wondering that many same-sex marriage activists claimed in debates: "This would cost society almost nothing or very little" and regarded it to be a viable argumentation. No, we must stand up and loudly say that we want some part of our money back - we are not less worth than others, why should we be treated differently from anybody else?
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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Re: Denney 9: Gay politics is a politics of pure principle
« Reply #4 on: Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 05:03 »

Indeed, it is not. I would, however, submit that trust IS a component of every other political solution to the quest for freedom and justice for the gay people. Not only is trust a component of these so-called solutions, it is the backbone of these solutions.

The proponents and peddlers of the said so-called solutions wouldn`t pay the price some of us have set for trusting them.

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Re: Denney 9: Gay politics is a politics of pure principle
« Reply #3 on: Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 01:48 »

Quote
Trust is not a component part of political independence and sovereignty.

Indeed, it is not. I would, however, submit that trust IS a component of every other political solution to the quest for freedom and justice for the gay people. Not only is trust a component of these so-called solutions, it is the backbone of these solutions.
Stonewall was a riot.

K6

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Re: Denney 9: Gay politics is a politics of pure principle
« Reply #2 on: Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 00:01 »


Apart from principles, politics is about power, and who has it. The freedom to be who we are requires some modicum of power. Justice almost certainly requires power. Currently, the freedom of the gay people to exist as who they are depends largely on the benevolent restraint of the prevailing straight culture. That restraint is not always to be counted on, nor is that benevolence.


In a context of self-determination,you leave the less possible into the hands of other political actors whom you do not control.Trust is not a component part of political independence and sovereignty.

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Denney 9: Gay politics is a politics of pure principle
« Reply #1 on: Mon, Jan 23, 2006, 20:58 »

Denneny’s ninth proposition is: “Gay politics (using politics in its narrow meaning) is a politics of pure principle.”

For us there is no “social question.” We are not asking for a bigger slice of the pie, but for justice. We do not require social programs, jobs, day-care centers, educational and professional quotas, or any of the other legitimate demands of previously exploited minority groups. Our demands will not cost the body politic one cent. We demand only the freedom to be who we are. The fact that this demand, which takes away nothing from anyone else, is met with such obstinate resistance is a noteworthy indication of how deep-seated is the hostility against us.

This proposition struck me as odd on first reading back in the 80s. In the context of the times, it is a quiet separation from the politics of the Left, a partial abandonment of the “revolution.” This separation is wholly in keeping with Denneny’s recognition that we have no natural allies.

Apart from principles, politics is about power, and who has it. The freedom to be who we are requires some modicum of power. Justice almost certainly requires power. Currently, the freedom of the gay people to exist as who they are depends largely on the benevolent restraint of the prevailing straight culture. That restraint is not always to be counted on, nor is that benevolence.
Stonewall was a riot.
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