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Author Topic: Commentary  (Read 5839 times)

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Anonymous

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #18 on: Tue, Jan 24, 2006, 23:35 »

Translation of Message # 79 of the French language sector of activity of the External Affairs of the Gay Parallel Republic (GPR)  posted on january 24,2006 in alt.politics.micronations:

"Given the results of the elections held yesterday in the macrostate neighbooring on our micronation,we can no longer give any assurance that
we will remain apart from the Québécois separatism,which up untill now wasn`t at all supported by us.The territorial integrity of a country which
raises to power even as a minority government a political party from the right like the canadian federal conservatives appears now to us of a lesser interest."

K6

K6

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #17 on: Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 18:36 »


I,for myself,believe in the establishment of gay self-determination in one country only,our country.All other gay elements,not participating directly
and as immigrants to the demographics of that country of ours,would be mere instruments and agents of influence of that country abroad.Our
numbers would not allow for a gay dominated world.Even if we had the numbers,the heterosexuals who had them failed nevertheless at world domination and in that respect should not be imitated or emulated by us.I have little faith in affluent and wealthy gays.In most human societies,the affluent and the wealthy generally side with foreign domination.In our specific case,they could go for at least partial assimilation into the heterosexual family lifestyle,in order to saveguard their material interests,their capital and inheritance.

K6

Mogul

  • Viktor Zimmermann
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Re: Commentary
« Reply #16 on: Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 18:18 »

The majority of the world gay population would likely remain outside a gay State.There,it would act as some kind of strategic reserve,unused or only partly used.In ordinary times,it would rest content with sending financial or economic assistance to a gay State,alongside with immigrants.[..]

Sure, during hard times the gay state would have to request help from the wealthy gays from well-going democracies. On the other hand, it seems that the gay state would be in the duty to organize the support of persecuted LGBT communities in less fortunate countries. Additionally, some funding of cultural activities would have immediate positive impact onto the gay world at large - no matter, where an individual is living. I think the gay state, once established, should and no doubt will involve engagement from the gay diaspora - the clue is to establish some supranational and local organizatory structures to channel all the potential we have into something more fruitful.

It doesn't really matter in what country your computer is located - a gay writer or translator can participate in the cultural live of the nation at any place he lives. A gay film project can be realized in any half-way tolerant country and contribute to our culture as whole. It might be even desireable to establish business in poor countries to give work and bread to our queer brothers and sisters there. Where possible, local Diasporas shall buy land and build community centers, libraries and establish visible symbols of our existence. Again, all these things aren't totally new, and existing LGBT organizations are already doing some good job since many years. We only should do the next step towards being a folk, canalize the ressources and encourage a systematical "franchising" of successfull projects worldwide.

This process could be busted, once a territorial gay sovereign entity exists. Gay refugees would find a welcoming safe place and a mighty representative of gay rights would arise on the international area. However, the possession of a territory is not a coercive prerequisite for any effective activity on the fields of gay culture and gay liberation politics - here a vital non-territorial entity with strong commitment of it's affiliates could do a very good job as well.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #15 on: Sun, Jan 15, 2006, 14:07 »


In both conceptions, an international (better term: interstatal) organization of gay people is crucial for the succes of the enterprise. An isolated independent gay village-state with 2000 citizens will for sure serve best these 2000 lucky guys, but be pretty useless and meaningless for the gay population at large. The increasing cultural progress and within the entire community is one of our primary goals. This can only be achieved by an effective and fruitful cooperation within the gay diaspora - if we learn to understand us a true people. The gay state, as I see it, would be an important part of the movement and a place of refuge, piligrimage and study - but the most gays will live "abroad" and must be involved into the network as well." [/color]

The majority of the world gay population would likely remain outside a gay State.There,it would act as some kind of strategic reserve,unused or
only partly used.In ordinary times,it would rest content with sending financial or economic assistance to a gay State,alongside with immigrants.
The gay State would be like its insurance policy for eventual bad days on the heterosexual side.At extraordinary times of international tension,involving or not the gay State,gays residing abroad would send intelligence.A minority like us gays,which by mere numbers is not the strongest and thus the most likely to prevail by force on every occasion,must be better informed.Having eyes and ears in every human society
and country could reestablish some form of equilibrium between us and the heterosexuals,provided that a gay State exists to exploit that advantage of ours.

K6

K6

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #14 on: Fri, Jan 06, 2006, 06:33 »

I have observed communist regimes or apparented ones on site three times: In Poland (1976),Nicaragua (1984) and Cuba (1996).All three exploited to various degrees nationalism.Especially the Cuban and castrist regime,which ressembles more a radical leftwing nationalist regime
than a communist one.That was obvious in its billboards,press,propaganda and supporters,which or whom all appealed to cuban values or national
traits of characters and surfed upon them.Another interesting type of organization if the catholic Jesuit order,which recruits and operates in ways
which remind the methods of communist parties.The Jesuit order skims and milks society of its competences and brains,and uses them to further
its own interests and aims.I mention this because I was myself,while in my mid teens,taught by some Jesuit priests who,while having no influence upon my atheism,deeply impressed me.Communist,radical or romantic nationalist organizations or leaders are monomaniacal: they have only one
aim in life,which they pursue in a singleminded and relentless manner.

K6

Mogul

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #13 on: Fri, Jan 06, 2006, 01:55 »

Yep! Good organization is very important for any good undertaking. But I must tell you that during the russian revolution 1917 the communists had many more supporters than you suggest - the soldiers, the poor agricultural workers and so on. It doesn't make a revolution to take over the Winter Palace - you must bring the majority of the population to do what you what or eliminate your enemies untill you have reached a majority.  >:)

My personal experiences with communists and their "social engineering"  ;D make me a bit reluctant to agree that their only problem was the missed generation change.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #12 on: Fri, Jan 06, 2006, 00:35 »


There is also the example of the communist takeover in Russia in 1917.The communists weren`t an army.They were a thiny minority.And even the constituency they claimed to represent - the industrial proletariat - made up perhaps 2% of the Russian population.They were however superiorly
organized,and their organization prevailed amidts chaos.It must also be noted,admited and said that amidts that chaos,where most people didn`t knew what they wanted,the communists knew exactly what their aims were,didn`t appeared as overly surprised by the events,and had of course no scrupule whatsoever.The only weak point of marxist organizations is that they aren`t democratic.They have no process of orderly transfer of political power from one generation to another.They may thus themselves collapse suddently a few decades later,when their founders and leaders die or become too old.

K6

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #11 on: Thu, Jan 05, 2006, 19:54 »

I have read your statements and have posted an reply. I would like to post the text in this thread as well, for others:

"Sure, sizing power during a general chaos and absense of state power on a particular area ("interregnum") is a possibility to create a new (gay) state. Such an action would require military and police infrastructure to enforce new order and provide personal and proprietary safety for the inhabitants. Means, heavy weapons have to be stored and a standing army be entertained, waiting for the D-day. Such preparations for a war of aggression (which it clearly would be) are punishable by the criminal codes of most countries and could be performed only on an operation base located in an area with no functioning law enforcement. The effective strategy would be to emigrate into the instable area and secure the initial base by a couple of Kalashnikoffs. Then buy even more Kalashnikoffs and let even more people emigrate, and so on, untill you have enough manpower and money to buy dozens of Leopards, and a couple of Su-27. Such a strategy may succeed, if you have strongly motivated supporters who give little value upon their own lives in comparison with the idea. E.g., Israelis successfully took advantage of an "interregnum" in Palestine, or Talibans successfully defeated Soviets with financial help of the US government and then ruled Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001. There ARE actually some states in the condition of desintegration at the present timepoint: Somalia and Iraque are WAITING for a new rule or could serve as donor of territory. The question is, whether such a way appears desireable to the gay people?

The alternative is an evolutionary approach: land aquisition under existing law, by and by creation of own (gay) civil administration, and secession to an appropriate timepoint, if possible without blood shed. An area distant from the mother country would be highly suitable, as colonies mostly cost money and are tiresome to oppress for a long period of time. This way offers real improvements to real people during their life-times, though, of course, the success cannot be guaranteed from the initial time point as well.

In both conceptions, an international (better term: interstatal) organization of gay people is crucial for the succes of the enterprise. An isolated independent gay village-state with 2000 citizens will for sure serve best these 2000 lucky guys, but be pretty useless and meaningless for the gay population at large. The increasing cultural progress and within the entire community is one of our primary goals. This can only be achieved by an effective and fruitful cooperation within the gay diaspora - if we learn to understand us a true people. The gay state, as I see it, would be an important part of the movement and a place of refuge, piligrimage and study - but the most gays will live "abroad" and must be involved into the network as well."
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #10 on: Wed, Jan 04, 2006, 18:13 »

Very good. :) As Jon (=Piper) said, we sista's must keep together, regardless of our differences. It should be possible for the differing conceptions of gay self-determination to co-exist peacefully and exchange ideas for common benefit. In the way of discourse we can find some new ideas and create practicable solutions for the gay nationalism.

Since our last exchanges back in december,I have posted some commentaries in alt.politics.micronations and in a thread titled "Seceding or
not seceding,that is the question".In gay self-determination as I see it,the State must have exclusive competence in the determination of the
sexual orientation of its citizens and permanent residents.It can have it,so far as I can make up,solely by choosing its citizens and permanent
residents by way of immigration.Untill we know exactly what causes human beings to be gay,there must be no privtate reproductive enterprise
or initiative in a gay independent state.Success anyway,and not necessarily the adequation to ethics or human rights,shall make a genuinely independent state.

K6

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #9 on: Wed, Jan 04, 2006, 13:32 »

Very good. :) As Jon (=Piper) said, we sista's must keep together, regardless of our differences. It should be possible for the differing conceptions of gay self-determination to co-exist peacefully and exchange ideas for common benefit. In the way of discourse we can find some new ideas and create practicable solutions for the gay nationalism.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #8 on: Mon, Dec 12, 2005, 18:25 »

This would be very kind, of course! Our permanent staff is rather small and includes:

  • 1 geographer,
  • 1 webmaster (a german athling and gifted essay-writer ),
  • 1 intelligence officer (pretending to be a humble pantry cook from Pennsylvania),
  • 1 internet spider (private scholar and chemistry student),
  • 1 waiter for the Café (cute cyborg aka Lord Karnickel)

I am not aware we have someone speaking Spanish. I am playing we the thought to start learning IDO and suggest it to be obligatory in this forum, but I'm afraid the other guys would go to the barricades...
 ;D ;D ;D

Translation into English of Message # 28 (december 10,2005) of the Spanish language sector of the GPR ) posted in alt.politics micronations:

"DEBATES ON THE ISSUE OF GAY INDEPENDENCE ON A MACROPOLITICAL LEVEL
We have undertaken recently debates about the issue of gay independence and on a macropolitical level in another internet forum and in a
non official manner.Although our micronation does not pursue at the moment such an aim,it must be said that such a idea like gay independence on a macropolitical level evokes only hope and sympathy here at the seat of the GPR".

Note - I am the person responsible for the international communications of the GPR,notably for the activity of its sections in such foreign
languages like French and Spanish.

K6

Mogul

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #7 on: Mon, Dec 12, 2005, 13:33 »

It appears that yesterday december 10,2005 the Spanish language sector of activity of a gay micronation operating in alt.politics.micronations commented about the opening of these sound and consequent discussions about gay self-determination.If you do not have the appropriate staff to do so,I shall provide a translation into English upon request. K6

This would be very kind, of course! Our permanent staff is rather small and includes:

  • 1 geographer,
  • 1 webmaster (a german athling and gifted essay-writer ),
  • 1 intelligence officer (pretending to be a humble pantry cook from Pennsylvania),
  • 1 internet spider (private scholar and chemistry student),
  • 1 waiter for the Café (cute cyborg aka Lord Karnickel)

I am not aware we have someone speaking Spanish. I am playing we the thought to start learning IDO and suggest it to be obligatory in this forum, but I'm afraid the other guys would go to the barricades...
 ;D ;D ;D
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #6 on: Sun, Dec 11, 2005, 17:09 »

Ah, good - we would need some additional publicity! :) Can you tell us the link to the French part of the forum, please?

P.S. OK, I have found it:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.micronations/browse_thread/thread/64a61c75bb2331c2

It appears that yesterday december 10,2005 the Spanish language sector of activity of a gay micronation operating in alt.politics.micronations commented about the opening of these sound and consequent discussions about gay self-determination.If you do not have the appropriate staff to do so,I shall provide a translation into English upon request.

K6

K6

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #5 on: Fri, Dec 09, 2005, 23:33 »

Are, you still insist on exclusivity?  8(( May you be told better! Look here:

http://www.gaykingdom.org
http://hometown.aol.com/glkparliament/index.html

Both of them are as well sinister that they are the rightfull representatives of the gay population! I also have not a slightest doubt that HIM Dale, deprived of his Imperial Dignitaries and the domain (gaykingdom.org), also believes himself the rightful souvereign upon us...

Welcome to the sandbox, guys!  ;D ;D ;D

That is standard ordinary practice,no shame in that.The next who will appear on the scene will expectadly do the same.

K6

Mogul

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Re: Commentary
« Reply #4 on: Fri, Dec 09, 2005, 18:40 »

"In the Gay Parallel Republic (GPR),we are of course convinced to constitute the only place on earth which finds itself under gay sovereignty. Our problem consists in communicating that notion in a diplomatic manner to other political actors we have recently encountered,some of whom claim to be engaged towards gay political independance."

Are, you still insist on exclusivity?  8(( May you be told better! Look here:

http://www.gaykingdom.org
http://hometown.aol.com/glkparliament/index.html

Both of them are as well sinister that they are the rightfull representatives of the gay population! I also have not a slightest doubt that HIM Dale, deprived of his Imperial Dignitaries and the domain (gaykingdom.org), also believes himself the rightful souvereign upon us...

Welcome to the sandbox, guys!  ;D ;D ;D
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin
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