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Author Topic: Land Ideas (new and old)  (Read 22862 times)

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Vizier

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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #12 on: Sat, Apr 30, 2005, 04:45 »

Here is a bigger (and of course more expensive) example of what we could do in the Bahamas!  http://www.privateislandsonline.com/longcay.htm ANybody have $27 Million lying around?
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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #11 on: Sat, Apr 30, 2005, 04:41 »

Here is one of the candidates in Greece I find attractive - http://www.privateislandsonline.com/greecerinia.htm

This is some 550 acres, so not the world's largest, but bigger than Cato, in a MUCH better place and accessible. Read those details!   ;) Now, who has 2 Million Euros lying around?  :D
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Vizier

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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #10 on: Sat, Apr 30, 2005, 04:36 »

Hi Don, I agree with you too. Generally, I think the area selected by the GLK serves but one purpose - to be accessible to the founding members from Australia. I don't find Cato much to write home about (I'm not a weather balloon even though I feel like one at times) and I doubt the choice of Clipperton would be any better...

I still think that raising cash to buy acreage/real estate is the most viable approach.  Obviously an island merits most consideration there, largely because it is easy to "pry" out of the hands of its owners, but why down there?  The Caribbean comes to mind, as do the islands in the Greek Sea, many of which are either uninhabited, deserted or so sparsely inhabited that we might be welcomed with open arms.  I'm going to post a few here and would love it if Don could go look at them for a cursory geographical viability assessment.

Of course, what happens if the GLK tries to beat us to the punch? Well, I doubt it, actually, I don;t think they are financially that much better off then we are right now... (and of course we are not doing all that well! Join, people! We need to get founded so we can start collecting our >ridiculously low< dues and get the ball moving!!!
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Mogul

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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #9 on: Fri, Apr 29, 2005, 13:13 »

Yes, I agree to you, Don. In my view as well, Clipperton is not really suitable for economical growth on its own. But we still should keep it in mind, as it could suite due to its "geopolitical" positition :) As to independence, unfortunately no one can certainly make a forecast... It would be already a big win, if we could entertain a self-administrated settlement and the "colonial power" would let us in peace for a while.

You see guys you have a great resource in me since I am a geologist I have resources for lots  of things, like info on land,  oil and other natural resources. 
That's true! ;)
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donClark

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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #8 on: Fri, Apr 29, 2005, 03:27 »

hey everyone,

I have read the posts on here and I agree with everything that has been said.  we need to keep in mind that it would be easier to gain independance from certain countrys then others.  I believe it would be easier  to gain independance  from France, then it would  be from the USA, The USA  tends to hold on tight, and also with the current administration  IE President Bush, there would be no way to gain independance, do you agree?

I have looked at Clipperton Island and At least in my opion as a Geologist  this island is truly not a real good idea, there would be no way to really grow any food, and we would have to rely on importing food, which we would proably have to do no matter what island but in varying degrees.  I have found no evidance of sweet water on Clipperton but I have yet to tap into my sources at the USGS or my other sources.

You see guys you have a great resource in me since I am a geologist I have resources for lots  of things, like info on land,  oil and other natural resources.  so bring on the ideas guys I will tap into any source I have.

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Re: New Land Ideas
« Reply #7 on: Thu, Apr 28, 2005, 14:55 »

I have also started looking into athe clipperton island idea.  also I am researching some stuff in french polynisia.

Mogul

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Re: New Land Ideas
« Reply #6 on: Thu, Apr 28, 2005, 12:57 »

Don, that's great! I will look for some greek island for our effort, Peter (Vizier) seems to favor some mexican island and also a Clipperton Island was in discussion as far. I will gather our older posts from other groups and then look that I contribute some new ideas to the discussion.

Hugs, Vicky
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Mogul

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Clipperton (2)
« Reply #5 on: Thu, Apr 28, 2005, 12:44 »

Dear all, there is a french scientific group present on the Clipperton Island at the moment, please look to this site (in french language):

http://www.jeanlouisetienne.fr/clipperton/

There are some interesting data about the geography, flora and fauna and a detailed map. The overall dry land is about 2 qkm, not really arable and the water inside of the lagoon appears to be not of the best quality. Unfortunately for us, France regards the reef as a strategic territory. On the other hand, the french marine is visiting the island not very often (last time 2 years ago), and upon the said expedition is gone, they probably will come back not that soon. However, Clipperton is just one of the suggestions. At this stage, we should collect as many informations as possible and make no overhasted fixations on some specific territories.

As my French knowledges are rather poor, we would need someone to translate basic informations then (hopefully we do have some skilled person) :)

Regards,

Vicky
« Last Edit: Fri, Apr 29, 2005, 13:26 by Mogul »
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

Mogul

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General remarks on suitable landslip
« Reply #4 on: Thu, Apr 28, 2005, 12:41 »

Hi folks,

That's the job we have to do first: make a list with "Candidates" for the Homeland and discuss what do we actually WANT. As there was already mentioned on other places (gaykingdom yahoo group
etc.), the distant islands have one immense political advantage: they can be hardly controlled by an overseas colonial power, therefore we could have more freedome to do what WE think is the best and there is a real chance to get self-administered and eventually independent. Unfortunately, the economic prospectives of an isolated island are not good. All industrial goods will to be imported, the local economy will need a long-term support from the western community.

A colony incorporated into the mainland of an existing country would offer much better economic chances, but it will most likely NEVER get independence and the mother-country will surely not tolerate any not sanctioned immigration into this area. This colony could become an important cultural area for gay people but it cannot offer shelter to our people suffering oppression somewhere in the world.

Any island near to the shores of the mainland would probably also have big difficulties to get independent, however the chance is not exactly zero. The supply and economic developement would be less difficult that these of an isolated island, however still be a source of certain worries.

So, WHAT do we actually want? If we want an culturally and economically high-developed gay-owned area, ANY landscape in Australia, USA, Mexico etc. would do. If we want INDEPENDENCE, the simple de-facto colonization of a suitable uninhabited island like
Clipperton Island seems to be the way. A midl-thing could be a pretty greec island somewhere on the greec-turc border (the easy way, but with uncertain result).

Personally, I favor the idea of a self-administrated island which is far enough from the mainland to be safe from bothering, but be potentially frequented by some trade marine. On an island like
Clipperton we could start settling without buying the area and just create facts, as this is not a private property. Just use the natural right of any creature to populate any free area. As long as no
premature declarations are sent to the UN or to the colonial power, who will care??? Once we are there and have a really functioning self-administrated settlement, negotiations could be initiated. Of course, the settlers would probably face sever difficulties and the life there would be far from being comfortable. An expedition for 6-8 weeks and a crew of 5-7 people would investigate the area and install an elemental infrastructure.

You see, there are some more options on the desk. We would be well-advised not to led internal wars about which is the only one true. Instead, we shall keep together and try to check out this
options and see which one would function. No one should be enforced to give his time and money for a project he does not believe in. Maybe there will exist more of this "colonies", each trying to find its way to the independence.

Rationally, however, we better keep together and try realize at least ONE of our projects. :)

Kind Regards,

Vicky
« Last Edit: Thu, Apr 28, 2005, 12:47 by Mogul »
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

Mogul

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Clipperton Island (1)
« Reply #3 on: Thu, Apr 28, 2005, 12:34 »

Folks,

Jaix Broox from the GLK recently posted an idea to populate the Clipperton Island instead of Cato. The Clipperton Island is said to have sweet water resources and is and not inhabited overseas territory of France.

Mr. Jon Matlick brought some considerations about Clipperton Island being a part of UN's projects related to environmental protection and doubded the prospectives of getting independence on a legal way.

I commented the idea in one of the GLK's forums as follows:

"Hi everybody,

now we begin to think before we proclaime something premature, CONGRATULATION! This is the way we had to start the whole project: think what can be done, what is legally rightfull and whether we could be able to survive on the specific place at all...

Jon, I do not think that your arguments are wrong completely, but please consider that MANY people of this earth do not care much about nature when the national or local economy is concerned, including US, France, Germany etc. Think about all the boreal and tropical forests
and coral reefs which are destroyed daily in the progress of human race. The change of any wild nature into civilized area can be discussed controversally but it has never been a reason to prohibit
any nation from declaration of independency. However, nothing would restrain us from environmental protection and sustainable development, should we ever populate the island.

Generally, I would propose to go through 6 phases:
1) make a list of island or areas in question;
2) send expeditions to the most interesting "candidates";
3) choose the one which is most appropriate for sustainable developement and most likeable to gain independency;
4) populate the area and instal at least a kind of self-administration under the law of the country the island belongs to;
5) start NEGOTIATIONS with the government of the said country and consulting the UN on the topic of independency;
6) upon success of such negotiations declare a more or less independent country, maybe under military protection of the former power.

While I am not sure whether the Clipperton Island has sweet water on it (Jaix, where did you take the informations?), you have to admitt that France as a power is not a bad shot for our efforts. If you look onto the recent history, France dismissed many of its colonies into independence upon NEGOTIATIONS. Some of the colonies preferred to stay in good relationship with France and receive developement help. If we would actually populate the island and have functioning settlement there, it would be possible to achieve REAL independency and maybe win France as protective power (no need to say how a conflict with any fundamentalistic christian/islamic country would end for us without such a protection).

So, I think the idea is worth discussion. It is better than install an "absolute monarchy" (with an usurpator as REAL regent) and declare silly war to highly industrialized country with 18.000.000 inhabitants and powerfull armed forces. Why the hell not get a democracy and take a peacefull way?

All the sounding titles like Emperor, Lord Protektor, Lord Chancellor and the like are not worth a penny, if you are even not able to bring your (or someone else's) ass to the country you pretend to be real. In modern world such titles are just historic names for jobs, which a person executes as service to the community. Boys, any local chief of any indian tribe has more real power than each of the honorable Lords and High Priest you are playing in. Particularly, Mr. Freeman and Mr. Grande have habits, which are more royal then those of Queen Elisabeth! Indeed, Mr. Freeman seems to be very fond of Ludovic XIV understanding of the state: "L'Etat c'est moi". I would recommend the
Baron de Montesquieu, who introduced the idea of separation of powers and is one of the grandfathers of any modern state system. Once again, why some individuals do insist on being mediavial at the beginning of the 21. Century??"

Well, I personally appreciate the idea of buing a small unpopulated greec island, but I think the Idea of Jaix is not bad, too. We should take the island into our considerations.

Regards, Vicky
« Last Edit: Thu, Apr 28, 2005, 12:49 by Mogul »
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Mogul

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Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #2 on: Thu, Apr 28, 2005, 12:32 »

Here we should gather our old posts from the "old kingdom" group and other fora. This re-posts become slowly "historical" but still are worth of looking onto them :)
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

donClark

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Land Ideas (new and old)
« Reply #1 on: Thu, Apr 28, 2005, 00:22 »

Hey Guys as I am doing Research Into land Options,if any of youhave any ideas Please post them here and I will look into them, also if you have any research on them please do the same



Don
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