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Author Topic: Money rules the world - strategies for evicting gay life from cities  (Read 7171 times)

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Mogul

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[..] I could however provide scenarios likely to inspire some talented gay artist should we come accross one.Or failing that,litghing up the imagination of other participants here.One of my fields of interest and studies is political propaganda.I have manuals full of illustrations and tips on the subject in my library.

There are for sure many gays and lesbians gifted in painting - some even successfully earn money with their art. It would be fine if some of the guys and gals would feel encourage to contribute to our community's culture also with nice propaganda artworks. K6, is there any possibility for you to gather some of your gay propaganda suggestions in a special thread (e.g. in the board "Gay Culture")?

Another advantage we enjoy over heterosexuals,is that we have no real competitors in the form of gay role models from previous generations.We are not saddled with their moral authority,for they neglected to establish one over our gay youth.So,the political fashions of the gay community can change very rapidly and to our advantage if we only seize the opportunity.

The advantage is also one of our disadvantages - we face severe difficulties to pass our cultural achievements to the next generations. Unfortunately, any true moral authority among gays will have difficulties to be widely accepted in the community - as a people, we are in a confused and disodered state so far. Some people would even refuse the notion that we (gays and lesbians) need morality and ethics - too strong is the experience of being oppresed by the false morality. But does the sexual liberation extinguish any moral? It does not - ethics and understanding of what is right and what is wrong are very important for any civilized community. Community centres will create the neccessary environment to transfer our knowledges and ethics from one generation to the next one, and internet can help us to distribute our cultural goods justly among all of our people.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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Indeed, it may have taken centuries for Nations in the past to form, but remember what their communications were like.
News, ideas, and politics traveled slowly by foot/horse.
Today a good idea (or even a bad idea, remember the Macarena?) can travel at light speed.

Another advantage we enjoy over heterosexuals,is that we have no real competitors in the form of gay role models from previous generations.We
are not saddled with their moral authority,for they neglected to establish one over our gay youth.So,the political fashions of the gay community
can change very rapidly and to our advantage if we only seize the opportunity.

K6

K6

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@ K6: Yes, a good propaganda painter would be greate. I remember the important role the gay comic drawer Ralph König played in gay emanzipation in Germany - his gays were fanny, serious, weird and gorgeous - they transported much of the self-consciousness which we so desperately needed that times. God beware us to instrumentallize the art entirely for our propaganda purposes, but a certain pathetic touch would surelly be of much benefit for our movement.

I have no artistic talent whatsoever as for the drawing.I could however provide scenarios likely to inspire some talented gay artist should we come accross one.Or failing that,litghing up the imagination of other participants here.One of my fields of interest and studies is political propaganda.I have manuals full of illustrations and tips on the subject in my library.

K6

Mogul

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Jaix, if you would determine to send out a "terrorist" with a fruit tart targeting the face of some prominent homophobe, we would sponsor the material costs! Would this qualify us to be included into the list of terroristic organizations?  ;D

Seriously: spreading the idea is very important, but probably even more important is to develope it further. If we want to come beyound fun, we must offer a serious analysis of our situation and a half-way detailed plan of operation. If we are expecting people to join our movement, we must also offer something worth of their devotion - at the moment we still have no real concept worthy of that word.

The problems with proper chartering of our organizations derives from our little numbers and the already mentioned "fun factor" - at the point when things turn serious, many of the previously bold big-mouthes disappear from the horizont. And, of course, after experiences made with the deceased entity, some good people are discouraged and wait for a sign. Alone, we miss the prophet! 

@ K6: Yes, a good propaganda painter would be greate. I remember the important role the gay comic drawer Ralph König played in gay emanzipation in Germany - his gays were fanny, serious, weird and gorgeous - they transported much of the self-consciousness which we so desperately needed that times. God beware us to instrumentallize the art entirely for our propaganda purposes, but a certain pathetic touch would surelly be of much benefit for our movement.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

Jaix

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  • Time flies like an arrow,fruit flys like a banana!

Indeed, it may have taken centuries for Nations in the past to form, but remember what their communications were like.
News, ideas, and politics traveled slowly by foot/horse.
Today a good idea (or even a bad idea, remember the Macarena?) can travel at light speed.   What we have to do is marketthe idea of a Gay State.  For all of his fabled and multiple faults, the former Emperor had a talent for
advertising.  But alas, to advertise costs.

We in the Commonwealth have been struggling with the question of finances also.  Not so much the amount of money, but the how to channel it, contain it, and disperse it.  I was pleased to read your Executive Meeting minutes, and garner some new ideas and information. 
Things are a little harder now in the US in regards to soliciting and accepting monies, especially from overseas.  Seems everone is a terrorist now until proven otherwise.
Personally the only terrorism I fantasize about is bitch slapping a few politicians 8((


Jaix
PM/GLCK

K6

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The normal boy from the flat land comes to the gay village not because he has some ideas about gay emancipation, but simply because he finds there places to meet other boys, a job opportunity and some gay bookstores and video stores.

Political information and propaganda is to adress to the lowest common determinator and basic instincts.It`s a pity we have no artist and drawer of the Pierre Joubert category to produce through strong images with few words a representation of what independence in the form of a State would look like for us.Or a producer of gay movies like the French Cadinot.I have some Cadinot gay erotic movies,but they are much more sophisticated than our local production in north America.There is of course sex and love in it,but also a plausible story and intrigue.Like in his movie "Les minets sauvages" (The Young Wildcats).Gay separatist propaganda,by way of image and movies and before and after a gay independent State has been established,would aim at making our younger generation fall in love with that country of ours.

K6

K6

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And a foolish notion this "glorious idea" is, too. I'm afraid that the bulk of the GLBT world has already fallen prey to this misapprehension. It is a very special form of self-hatred that causes people to take upon themselves the responsibility for provoking their own persecution. The source of any conflict with "them" lies within the hearts of "them." "They" have historically demonstrated a certain passion for this conflict.

Frictions,tensions and conflicts between us and heterosexuals would exist and go on even in the absence of any form of labeling from either side.For labeling is not a cause but merely a symptom of that situation.It`s the cherry on the sundae,or the icing on the cake.Both the sundae and the cake would both exist anyway,the first without the cherry and the second without the icing.Heterosexual and gay correspond to two sets of differential and potentially conflicting interests.Earthly interests,not philosophical ones.Conflict,and from there on political separation,have to do with life and are a component part of the dynamic of life.The best to make out of it,since it is unavoidable,is to relax and enjoy.

K6

Mogul

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I think the simplest answer may be that we do not, as a people, yet have the will to implement such a plan. [..] Denneny was absolutely correct when he said that the ghetto needs to be consolidated and expanded. He was not referring to some ideal (and hypothetical) gay state, but merely the places where we live today. In the decades since Denneny first published his propositions many of the gay ghettos have largely dissolved--sold off and transformed into trendy neighborhoods for yuppies. [..]

I have been reading around in the research of nationalism a little bit, and one thing seems to be widely accepted by the scholars: nationalism, and the very idea of a Nation, has always been the issue for elites, never for "peasants". It is always the elites, who begin to form national identity - they indeed are the nation. Not that the "peasants" were a priory a stupid bunch of fellows - but their everyday interests and realities are much to distant from thoughts about "self-determination" and "distinctive cultural goods" - they are working hard to earn their daily bread and gain some little pleasures. Certainly, the "simple people" suffer as much as the elites under the "foreign rule", and by times they take a  bloody revenge on their oppressors - but only the elites can make a "national movement" out of this spontaneous anger, and indoctrinate the masses with the new ideology of a national self-determination.

It is therefore in vain to complain about the masses and their irrationality - it simply is like it is. Whom we can not dismiss from responsibility, are our elites - our philosophers, writers, media editors, restaurant and bar owners, and any kind of wealthy individuals who make money with gay folks. All these people belong in that way or other to our elites - intellectually, morally or economically. They can directly influence the quality of gay life, and they are in duty to contribute to our developement as a people. The normal boy from the flat land comes to the gay village not because he has some ideas about gay emancipation, but simply because he finds there places to meet other boys, a job opportunity and some gay bookstores and video stores. Unlike him, the gay businessman can freely decide, where he establishes his business, for whom he establishes it, and whom he employs. The gay writer can choose by himself, what kind of books he writes - and make the decision to contribute or not to the gay culture. To make it short - the ones with money and ideas have the choice to create a cultural and economical environment for our communities, or not.

If our wealthy brothers sell their gay locations in the "gheto" to heterosexuals to make "straight" location out of it, they also sell out part of our cultural space. Certainly, an individual has the freedom to sell his property, but he must try to find another solution first - even if it means that he must wait a little bit longer till he can cash in. This is the way how it functions in any other (ethnic) local community - the property usually stays "within the family", and this tactics poved to be very efficient. Unfortunately, gays often feel superiour to such "primitive" tactics, and loose at the end.

It took European nations several centuries to develop separate and distinct national identities.I assume it must be the same process with any human group,including us gays.

While this is certainly true for European peoples in general, it cannot be claimed for every one of them - many never got the chance to develope into nations, and were either eradicated or assimilated. I am afraid, that we as a people might miss the right time slot to develope into a nation - and repeat the sad fate of so many other peoples before us. You say, that we existed through thousands of years - but what kind of existence was this? Our people were fiercely hunted, and, once found, they were staked, beheaded, hanged, burned or stoned - one can imagine what kind of life the unseized fellows were having. The sparse contacts to the antic literature certainly induceced some of our predecessors to intellectual activities about the "love which dares to speak her name not", but these sparks were rare. Now we have the unique opportunity to freely develope an entirely new gay political philosophy - and plant the seeds while it is still possible. I have little doubts that the Internet as we know it will soon cease to exist -censorship and governmental control have all the technical means to stiffle the free exchange of information. We must seize the opportunity for awakening national self-conscience now - history might offer us no second chance.

[..] It is a very special form of self-hatred that causes people to take upon themselves the responsibility for provoking their own persecution. The source of any conflict with "them" lies within the hearts of "them." "They" have historically demonstrated a certain passion for this conflict.

Yes - the separation into "us" and "them" has a very long historical tradition. The wish to belong to the majority has also a very long tradition and many historical examples. To recall one of them: the progressive assimilated Jews were also at war with their religious brothers, and were looking with contempt to the poor Jews emigrating from Russia or Balkan. These progressive Jews were altho suggesting that these unconformist Jews were the source of the hatred and antisemitism, and were best happy when these poor fellows would "disappear" in some way. At the end, the wealth, the progressivenes and assimilation were of no importance - the only thing which mattered, was their being Jews. In our case, it is absolutely equal whether we are rich or poor, "straight-looking" or swishes - we have only ourselves to rely upon. As sooner all of us understand this, as better.

[..] But when someone does decide to start buying properties, I would recommend that they focus on smaller satellite cities instead of the urban metropolises the people have favored thus far. [..] There is but one reason only why the gay people find themselves in the minority everywhere that they exist: they will not move. Ultimately, they will not move because they find they do not deserve to move; they find that "they" don't even exist.

The very idea of gay political emancipation is some 150 years old, the modern gay movement might be some 85 years old. Gay separatism might be 35 years old, and the idea of a souvereign territorial state might be walking through gay minds for some 5 - 15 years. In historical dimensions, this is very little time - theoretically we could put our hands into pockets and wait until things take their course by themeselves. But as single human life is short, we can accelerate the process a little bit, and try to influence minds of our folks. Actually, gay people often proove that they can re-locate to a better place, e.g. from a countryside in Bavaria to the city of Munic, or from flatlands of Texas to New York. This means, the potential is there - it must be used. As I depicted above, the primary responsibility for creation gay environments lies in the hands of our intellectual and economic elites. If a sufficient number of gay businessmen lend an ear to our philosophers and moral leaders, they could work out a plan for how create a gay town or even a gay state. As businessmen rarely act solely out of altruism, the plan must include some advantages for them as well - this would be only fair. Our problem is, that we scarsely have moral leaders, and our businessmen often fight eachother instead to cooperate for the mutual benefit. The Christians have their priests and churches, the Jews have their rabbies and sinagogues - we lack similar institutions of local communal leadership entirely. Not that we are in need of a "gay church", but people like Larry Kramer should definetely have more opportunities to talk to local communities.

As for taking over a smaller satellite town - this might function very good, if at least few people with money would decide to back such an enterprise, and build a community center with a library, a video store etc. In Germany, we are confronted since few years with neo-Nazis buying lots of property in small towns via proxies - and establishing their operative bases there. The same strategy is practiced by some ethnic groups, who are certain about their wish to live close to each other. Are we as a group so much self-loathing that we do not want to live with our likes in neighbourhood? Or are we simply too "individual" to realise what's good for us? The time has come for a change in the minds of gay folks, and positive prospectives of this new life must be increasingly brought into discussion. Or else we are at risk to loose orientation and disappear after we have reached all the "equality".
« Last Edit: Fri, Mar 31, 2006, 00:27 by Mogul »
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

Feral

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Certain elements of the LGBT constellation will develop the glorious idea that in order to avoid any conflict with "them",there is to be no "us".

And a foolish notion this "glorious idea" is, too. I'm afraid that the bulk of the GLBT world has already fallen prey to this misapprehension. It is a very special form of self-hatred that causes people to take upon themselves the responsibility for provoking their own persecution. The source of any conflict with "them" lies within the hearts of "them." "They" have historically demonstrated a certain passion for this conflict.
Stonewall was a riot.

K6

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There is no "us." There is no "them." While the words might still have meaning, the people have no understanding of the concept.

Certain elements of the LGBT constellation will develop the glorious idea that in order to avoid any conflict with "them",there is to be no "us".

K6

K6

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There is but one reason only why the gay people find themselves in the minority everywhere that they exist: they will not move. Ultimately, they will not move because they find they do not deserve to move; they find that "they" don't even exist.

It took European nations several centuries to develop separate and distinct national identities.I assume it must be the same process with any human
group,including us gays.

K6

Feral

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Quote
The only question remaining is, why we are so stupid not to buy property for our own cultural infrastucture? 

I think the simplest answer may be that we do not, as a people, yet have the will to implement such a plan.

 Sadly, this is democracy at its purest: the people do not wish it. Denneny was absolutely correct when he said that the ghetto needs to be consolidated and expanded. He was not referring to some ideal (and hypothetical) gay state, but merely the places where we live today. In the decades since Denneny first published his propositions many of the gay ghettos have largely dissolved--sold off and transformed into trendy neighborhoods for yuppies.

Certainly this strategy would be easily implemented, if there were but people who wished to do so. But in order for US to buy anything we must first agree that we are an "us", and no one shall be evicted from anywhere until there is also a clear consensus creating a "them" to be evicted. It is here that the integrationists and the constructionists have had their way most thoroughly. There is no "us." There is no "them." While the words might still have meaning, the people have no understanding of the concept.

But when someone does decide to start buying properties, I would recommend that they focus on smaller satellite cities instead of the urban metropolises the people have favored thus far. It is far easier to gain a democratic majority in a city of 500 thousands than it is in a city of 500 millions. If the people cannot secure their own neighborhoods now, if they cannot migrate to and control even one city, then it is far too early for anyone to be dreaming of states.

There is but one reason only why the gay people find themselves in the minority everywhere that they exist: they will not move. Ultimately, they will not move because they find they do not deserve to move; they find that "they" don't even exist.
Stonewall was a riot.

K6

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In the first place, we must be clear about our objectives: do we want to elevate our people to the highest possible level of cultural developement or are we primarily fxed on fighting heterosexuals? It is obvious that the answer to this question will depict very different strategies for dealing with the "hethro regime" and its legal framework.
 :=SU

The hethro regime is exclusively a political affair.Its dealings with us gays have to do with relations of power and balance of power,not with legality.We ow nothing to legality for being still in existence after so many millenia of human history.Only that the hethro regime wasn`t able to defeat us.Our mere existence was our victory.And from that existence flows this next logical goal about which we are debating here: self-determination.

K6

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The question is certainly allowed - and the answer is: yes, we and our propertie would be in danger, should these regimes go one day.

Property of certain traditional gay venues certainly constitutes a step.But it should be completed and reinforced with colonization.This,we have
had in the Montreal gay district called the "Village Gai" over the last two decades.The district probably has now a gay majority.Closing down a few gay venues or bars unprotected by a local gay population would not be difficult to a new and hostile regime.Dislodging an entire gay population could lead to trouble,and thus its very idea be also the cause of a reflexion before trampling our interests.

K6

Mogul

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The question is certainly allowed - and the answer is: yes, we and our propertie would be in danger, should these regimes go one day. Therefore it is of course necessary to work for the independent gay state - that's why we are here, right? Nevertheless, the prospective that some worse times might come, does not prohibit us from taking advantage of current situation and do something for our people now. Not to wage them in false safety, but simply to do what is the best for some particular location at any given time. It would be foolish to assume that there will be one universal solution for all countries and all times - instead, we must react flexibly.

The gay state will have to pay much attention to the interests of our Diaspora, and issues concerning the aspects of various local gay communities would probably remain the most important aspects of foreign policy. Wherever it is possible, gay communities in Diaspora shall entertain communal centres with libraries, meeting halls etc - all these services are best secured in buildings posessed by the gays themeselves.

Any future danger is not sufficient reason to surrender our rights from beginning.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin
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