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Author Topic: Iraq  (Read 7835 times)

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Feral

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #23 on: Mon, Sep 04, 2006, 22:30 »

Plight Of Iraqi Gays Worsens

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(London) As Iraq continues to spiral closer to all-out civil war the situation for the country's LGBT community worsens by the day a British gay rights leader said on Monday.

Outrage leader Peter Tatchell, writing in the leftist weekly Tribune, says that information reaching the organization points to a "Talibanisation of Iraq"

Citing sources within the country, Tatchell says that some Baghdad neighborhoods, are now under the de facto control of Taliban-style fundamentalist militias.

"Two militias are doing most of the killing," he writes. "They are the armed wings of major parties in the [US/UK backed] Iraqi government. Madhi is the militia of Muqtada al-Sadr, and Badr is the militia of the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq (SCIRI), which is the leading political force in Baghdad's ruling coalition."
Stonewall was a riot.

Mogul

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #22 on: Wed, Aug 09, 2006, 23:24 »

The television report by Channel 4 is available at their homepage. It seems that the report is based on the older general informations, with some newer background stories and pictures.

There is little hope that the situation will change in the next years, as the experience of Afghanistan after the Soviet occupation shows. It is very easy to destabilize a country, but very hard to establish public order again. Over the next years, we will probably watch the religious fundamentalism of worst kind winning terrain in even more countries with islamic background (Pakistan, Indonesia, Malaysia etc).

Watching how one of the most influential leaders of Iraq frankly declares on television that known homosexuals must be immediately killed and their bodies burnt, is a striking experience. There can be never ever any "equality" with straights, because the issue of our "unworthyness" will come over and over again, if not in this generation, than in the next one.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

Feral

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #21 on: Sun, Aug 06, 2006, 09:56 »

Gays flee Iraq as Shia death squads find a new target

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Hardline Islamic insurgent groups in Iraq are targeting a new type of victim with the full protection of Iraqi law, The Observer can reveal. The country is seeing a sudden escalation of brutal attacks on what are being called the 'immorals' - homosexual men and children as young as 11 who have been forced into same-sex prostitution.

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Homosexuality is seen as so immoral that it qualifies as an 'honour killing' to murder someone who is gay - and the perpetrator can escape punishment. Section 111 of Iraq's penal code lays out protections for murder when people are acting against Islam.

'The government will do nothing to tackle this issue. It's really desperate when people get to the stage they're trading their children for money. They have no alternatives because there are no jobs,' Hili says.

Graphic photos obtained from Baghdad sources too frightened to identify themselves as having known a gay man, and seen by the Observer, show other gay Iraqis who have been executed. One shows two men, suspected of having a relationship, blindfolded with their hands tied behind their backs - guns at the ready behind their heads - awaiting execution. Another picture captured on a mobile phone shows a gay man being beaten to death. Yet another shows a corpse being dragged through the streets after his execution.

One photograph is of the mutilated, burnt body of 38-year-old Karar Oda from Sadr City. He was kidnapped by the Badr Brigade in mid-June. They work with the Ministry of Interior and are the informal armed wing of the Supreme Council of Islamic Revolution in Iraq, who make up the largest Shia bloc in the Iraq parliament. Oda's family were given an arrest warrant signed by the Ministry of Interior which said their son deserved to be arrested and killed for immorality as a homosexual. His body was found ten days later.

What's sad is that I can't even tell if the Observer is reporting a worsening of the already bad situation in Iraq, or just finally reporting on a situation that has been intolerable for a long time now. I suspect the former. The death squads, which always had the tacit cooperation of whoever was in authority, now appear to be operating under official license, their murders re-defined as a "public service."
Stonewall was a riot.

Mogul

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #20 on: Sat, Jun 10, 2006, 00:23 »

US occupational forces are simply not in control of the situation - they cannot protect Iraqi gays even if they wished to (which I doubt). Whatever the actual interests of the US administration in Iraq is, it is not creation of a democratic state. Like in many other cases, US diplomacy and intelligence have effectively supported tyranic and inhumane regimes, if only they acted in compliance with (assumed) US interests in the regions. We shall not forget that in the "freed" Afghanistan the islamic law (Sharia) is explicitely mentioned in the constitution as the corner stone of jurisdiction, and this means death to gays and to apostates, with government having actually no means to intervene.

"It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, when we're in a fledgling time like this, to go in and say, 'Here's these issues that are going to repel 80 percent of the population and this is what we want to inflict on you,'" he said. "We're trying not to get into too many values judgment type issues and just do the right thing."

This clearly means, American troops do not care about "democracy" and "universal values" - they simply must ensure their own safety and functioning ifrastructure in the region - either for the economic or for the military purposes, or both. At the end, this campaign was never meant to be a humanitary action.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #19 on: Fri, Jun 09, 2006, 06:31 »

In other words, despite the spokesman's protestations to the contrary, the US forces in Iraq know what is going on and are doing nothing.

Just like in Vietnam three decades ago,US armed forces are no match for a situation of guerrilla warfare.They are achieving no lasting political goal in Irak.They are not winning and they are thus in the process of loosing.They will eventually be compelled to quit,like they did in Vietnam.They
are not relevant to the situation in Irak for the present and the future.As for the recent past,they are,conjointly with the US government,
responsible for that situation.They have overthrown the previous regime of the late dictator Saddam Hussein,which was *secular* and kept
religious elements and factions quiet.There was no disorder in Irak before the arrival of US forces in 2003.

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Feral

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #18 on: Fri, Jun 09, 2006, 04:14 »

From the Washington Blade:

The U.S. military is aware of a rash of anti-gay killings in Iraq during the past eight months and is taking steps to curtail sectarian violence against all Iraqis, including gays, according to a spokesperson for the U.S.-led multinational forces in Iraq. 
 
At least three men suspected of being gay were gunned down March 20 in the Iraqi city of Ramadi. U.S. forces say they are concerned about the rising number of anti-gay killings in Iraq.

"If someone is in danger of being slaughtered or persecuted, we do all we can to stop it," said Army Maj. Joseph Todd Breasseale, chief of the Media Relations Division of the Multinational Corps in Iraq.

Breasseale spoke by telephone from his office at U.S. military headquarters in a section of Baghdad known as the Green Zone.

Faced with a highly volatile atmosphere brought about by warring Islamic factions, the U.S. and its coalition allies must use caution in addressing the issue of homosexuality, Breasseale said.

"It doesn't make a whole lot of sense, when we're in a fledgling time like this, to go in and say, 'Here's these issues that are going to repel 80 percent of the population and this is what we want to inflict on you,'" he said. "We're trying not to get into too many values judgment type issues and just do the right thing."

Breasseale's comments came in response to questions about how the U.S. was responding to a decision last October by a powerful Islamic leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, to issue a fatwa calling for the killing of gays in Iraq. Bush administration officials have cited al-Sistani as a moderate voice among Iraqi Shiites.

Islam considers homosexuality sinful. A website published in the Iranian city of Qom in the name of Sistani, says: "Those who commit sodomy must be killed in the harshest way," according to BBC news reports. The statement appeared in an Arabic section of the website dealing with questions of morality, but not in the English-language equivalent.

A network of gay Iraqi exiles in Europe reported that the fatwa triggered a flurry of assassinations, kidnappings and death threats against Iraqi gays.

In other words, despite the spokesman's protestations to the contrary, the US forces in Iraq know what is going on and are doing nothing.
Stonewall was a riot.

K6

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #17 on: Sun, May 28, 2006, 17:39 »

Now, think you are that gay son of a good moslem - would you readily stab a knife into your father's breast? This is the part of the dillema: too many gays from religious families are suffering immense social pressure as they are expected to make anywone but themeselves happy. Beyound fighting the mufties, we would do well by offering our brothers and sisters theologic and philosophic support to find their way to a better, well-thought ethics.

Veneration of the idea of a gay independent State should do the thing.Politics in that sense should fulfill all the spiritual and emotional needs of a gay individual.Working towards the establishment of a country of ours,something greater than ourselves as individuals,should satisfy our desire for eternity
in communion with gays of the past and of the future which form our continuity throughout history.No eternity is to be found elsewhere for us gays.

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Mogul

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #16 on: Sun, May 28, 2006, 01:01 »

Some other cleric has been broadcasting much the same message on Al-Jazeera.

The most "liberal" position I conceived from a mufti was, that he were a good citizen in a democratic country which laws do not allow to kill gays, and as such good citizen he would not go to streets and bash gays. At the same time he stressed that among muslims homosexuality were an outrageous behaviour which is forbidden by Qu'ran and therefore no muslim is allowed to be gay. When the "liberal" mufty was asked what he would do if his own son were homosexual, he said that this is an awfull question - just like to ask someone if your son comes to you and puts a knife into your heart.

Now, think you are that gay son of a good moslem - would you readily stab a knife into your father's breast? This is the part of the dillema: too many gays from religious families are suffering immense social pressure as they are expected to make anywone but themeselves happy. Beyound fighting the mufties, we would do well by offering our brothers and sisters theologic and philosophic support to find their way to a better, well-thought ethics.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

Feral

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #15 on: Thu, May 25, 2006, 14:29 »

From the Petrelis Files

Quote
The following is excerpted from speeches and interviews with Iraqi Ayatollah Ahmad Husseini Al-Baghdadi, which aired on Al-Jazeera TV on May 5, 2006, on Syrian TV on May 3, 2006, and on ANB TV on April 14, 2006.

"Whoever Marries Someone of the Same Sex Must Be Killed"

Ayatollah Ahmad Husseini Al-Baghdadi: "The second clause says no law may contradict the principles of democracy. Can you imagine millions demonstrating in Iraq, calling for same-sex marriage, like in Sweden, America, and Britain? Same-sex marriages means a marriage of a man with a man, or a woman with a woman. This is a terrible catastrophe, totally forbidden by Islam. Whoever marries someone of the same sex must be killed. Both must be killed as soon as possible and must be burned as well."

The remarks come from the end of this page, where the Ayatollah al-Baghdadi has other things to say as well.

So of course Al-Sistani will agree to remove the offending fatwa from his website. Some other cleric has been broadcasting much the same message on Al-Jazeera.
Stonewall was a riot.

Mogul

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #14 on: Mon, May 22, 2006, 21:56 »

[..] what kind of adversaries would the muslims constitute.He answered me right away and briefly with the expression "two-faced" ("fourbe",in French).Not to be trusted whatever they say,I gathered as for myself.

I guess this could be said about many other adversaries as well - I remember a couple of such comments heard about the Russians, the Chinese, the Spanish etc. In fact, even your beloved - and most respected - Niccoló Machiavelli kept trickiness in a very high value. In politics, it's very recommended to gain additional informations on whether people actually do what they say - this is as true for a gay politician as for a mullah.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #13 on: Tue, May 16, 2006, 00:54 »

I would say, this does not sound like a change of mind - instead being a simple tactics to avoid sanctions from the western governments. If Systany had publicly revoked his previous statements and had declared that doing any harm to homosexuals is wrong and evil - yes, then he would smooth the anger of our people.

In march 2004,I had a discussion of about four hours with another canadian who had worked for several years in a muslim country.He knew the place very well and had learned Arabic.I asked him among other things what kind of adversaries would the muslims constitute.He answered me right away and briefly with the expression "two-faced" ("fourbe",in French).Not to be trusted whatever they say,I gathered as for myself.

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Mogul

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #12 on: Mon, May 15, 2006, 20:36 »

I would say, this does not sound like a change of mind - instead being a simple tactics to avoid sanctions from the western governments. If Systany had publicly revoked his previous statements and had declared that doing any harm to homosexuals is wrong and evil - yes, then he would smooth the anger of our people.

As the things are now, he shall encounter appropriate justice for his crimes.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

Feral

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Re: Iraq
« Reply #11 on: Mon, May 15, 2006, 11:56 »

UK Gay News is reporting that the office of Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani has removed from its website the fatwa calling for the killing of homosexuals in the "worst, most severe way possible". Readers may recall that the BBC had recently confirmed that this fatwa did not appear on the English language version of that web site.

Quote
The removal on May 10 follows protests to Sistani by the London office of the Iraqi gay rights organisation, Iraqi LGBT, which represents a clandestine network of lesbian and gay activists inside Iraq’s major cities, including Baghdad, Najaf, Karbala, Hilla, Duhok and Basra.

Following two weeks of negotiations with Iraqi LGBT – UK, Sistani’s office agreed to remove the fatwa calling for the murder of gay men, but has curiously refused to remove the fatwa urging punishment for lesbianism.

Initially, Sistani’s office had demanded that Iraqi LGBT-UK delete their criticisms of Sistani from their website and apologise to the Grand Ayatollah for questioning his religious authority.

Iraqi LGBT-UK refused.  It issued a counter-demand that Sistani remove his ‘death to gays’ fatwa from his website.  After two weeks of sometimes tense negotiations, Sistani’s representatives in London and Najaf agreed to drop the homophobic fatwa from his website – except for the section calling for the punishment of lesbianism.

“We welcome the decision to remove the most murderously homophobic part of Sistanti’s fatwa from his website,” said gay Iraqi refugee, Ali Hili, who heads the organisation Iraqi LGBT – UK.  Mr Ali is also Middle East Affairs spokesperson for the British LGBT movement, OutRage!, which works closely with Iraqi LGBT – UK.

“This decision does not go far enough," Mr. Hili.  The fatwa has been removed from Sistani’s website only.  It has not been revoked.  We want the entire fatwa withdrawn, including the hateful denunciation calling for the punishment of lesbians.

“Iraqi LGBT-UK urges Sistani to apologise and revoke his fatwa calling for the murder of homosexuals, and to issue a new fatwa condemning all vigilante violence, including vigilante attacks on gay and lesbian people.

“We believe that Sistani’s fatwa has encouraged and sanctioned the current wave of execution-style assassinations of lesbians and gay men.  He owes gay Iraqis an apology.  He owes all Iraqis an apology for setting straight Iraqis against gay Iraqis.

“Endorsing the murder of other human beings is unIslamic.  Our Muslim faith is one of love, compassion, tolerance and mercy.  Hatred and prejudice have no legitimate place in our religion.

“Sistani’s encouragement of homophobic violence provokes negative views towards the Islamic faith and towards Muslim people.

“Iraqi LGBT-UK holds Sistani personally responsible for the murder of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender Iraqis. He gives the killers theological sanction and encouragement,” said Mr Hili.
Stonewall was a riot.

K6

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Re: A Disturbing Story on Iraq.
« Reply #10 on: Fri, May 05, 2006, 18:19 »

One more reports: "Iraqi police 'killed 14-year-old boy for being homosexual'".

Obviously, the police forces are infiltrated by fundamentalists.

The Iraki police and military forces set up by the US have never been and will never be reliable.They are the ones who pass on information to
the guerrilla and to the fundamentalists.Whereas they pass no information about the later to the US forces,while knowing quite a lot about them,
still happy if they or their immediate families aren`t themselves involved in the insurgency.In the times of Saddam Hussein,not a pin dropped in Irak without the dictator learning about it within the hour.Now,the police seems to see nothing and to know nothing.How strange.

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Mogul

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Re: A Disturbing Story on Iraq.
« Reply #9 on: Fri, May 05, 2006, 14:55 »

One more reports: "Iraqi police 'killed 14-year-old boy for being homosexual'".

Obviously, the police forces are infiltrated by fundamentalists.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin
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