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"Libbing it up" by Michael Bronsky

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K6:

--- Quote from: Mogul on Wed, Jun 14, 2006, 00:48 ---binational same-sex couples simply do not have the possibility to stay together. In such a situation, gay marriage is bitterly necessary for thousands of gay people

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Here,I must say that you make a point a favour of marriage being extended to gays.But for a purpose different from the one encountered in
hethro societies where money changes hands when a marriage terminates in divorce.I know by what name to call any exchange of money in
the context of a sexual relation.

K6

Mogul:

--- Quote from: K6 on Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 03:48 ---Marriage,at least in its monogamic form,is an hethro institution.It is a prostitution contract which has no basis among gays,who are supposed to be economically independent individuals.I do not mind at all importing in our midst hethro political institutions and manners which succeded in history.
--- End quote ---

Beg your pardon, you shall accept the simple fact that people are different, and that many gays are entirely happy in monogamous relationships with particular rights and obligations. If in a territorial gay state any gay person will have the right to become resident and live with whom ever he wants, in the rest of the world the reality is looking different: binational same-sex couples simply do not have the possibility to stay together. In such a situation, gay marriage is bitterly necessary for thousands of gay people, and neither are all gays economically independent, nor is monogamy based on sexual oppression - there are many people for whom sex belongs to a special relationship. You actually are doing much self-righteously by denouncing their life model as a "prostitution contract", denying the deep emotional bonds which are often peculiar to these relationships. They might not always last life-long, but for the duration of their existence, they are often faithfull.

Pretty another question is that of "aliments" and governmental subsidization of marital relationships. Here I completely agree with you: there is no need to handle monogamous relationships differently from others. In archaic Greece, the marriages and the divorces were handled very simply: everyone kept his/her property in case of divorce, which was a simple procedure as well. Instead of denouncing the gay marriage out of principle, we should contemplate the ways of embedding this institution into the entire social concept for the gay society - maybe unfettered from it's usual economical implications.

K6:

--- Quote from: Feral on Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 02:29 ---
Rather than heeding calls from the Left for a closer union (or worse, issuing such calls ourselves), the gay people really ought to be re-evaluating all of the layers of political associations they have built up over the years. Some of them, perhaps many of them, are useful and should be kept, even strengthened. Upon examination though, many will be revealed to be useless wastes of effort.

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In any political association of ours with non-gays,the non-gay siide while paying lip service to our concerns will always try to keep us in tow of the
hethro interest.It will take into consideration our cause,but almost at once will dilute and burden it with issues which are of concern only to hethro populations.The tactics of the political left of the 70s were in that respect only a part of a larger hethro strategy.The left and its tactics might have been relegated nowadays to the margins of world politics.But the strategy will remain operational and implemented by whomever we deal with who is in the hethro interest.We will have therefore to diferenciate and disentangle our own interest from the hethro one in its various manifestations.

K6

K6:

--- Quote from: Feral on Mon, Jun 12, 2006, 22:59 ---If the gay people shall be fighting for anything, it shall be their own rights and their own self-interest. History has demonstrated that the 'ros have no interest in even recognizing the inequities that separate the gay people from what is so piously intoned as "the rights of all people."

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Heterosexuals made society as it exists.They breed,own or claim to own every single human being,and reared each and everyone of the members
of society.They are therefore the ones answerable for anything that went wrong,and the ones also with the responsibility for rectifying anything wrong in society.For it is they,as beeders,who wield the power,both demographic and political.We cannot as gays endorse or share any such responsibility like the one of the hethro breeders,when we aren`t even the owners and educators of the youngsters of our own kind.

K6

K6:

--- Quote from: Mogul on Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 03:22 ---I stay with this - in Diaspora, we need equal rights to make a choice - even if this means for some the right to make the wrong choice (for some). You may condemn the institution of marriage, but you must agree that homosexuals must have the same rights to become equally happy or equally unhappy in their suburb one-family homes with a carport and a labrador on the carpet.

--- End quote ---

Marriage,at least in its monogamic form,is an hethro institution.It is a prostitution contract which has no basis among gays,who are supposed to be economically independent individuals.I do not mind at all importing in our midst hethro political institutions and manners which succeded in history.But I have a bias towards failed,hypocritical or simply outdated hethro institutions,monogamic marriage being on the top of the list.Therefore,what I support while we are living in the context of an hethro society is not the extension of marriage to gays,but its abolition pure and simple for everyone.That`s the way I see equality or at least some measure of it between heterosexuals and gays living in a same society.I see no advantage to be gained in marrying Pierre in Quebec,if it means renouncing having some good time with Fred in Toronto,with
Josť in Habana,Cuba,with Manfred in Germany,with Yuri in Russia,with Abdallah in Cairo,or with Sunil in New Delhi.I would resent being sued for alimony by another guy,even more should the arbitrer of this matter would be a foreign hethro State.

K6

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