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Author Topic: Help With Constitution  (Read 3748 times)

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K6

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Re: Help With Constitution
« Reply #9 on: Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 08:37 »

Very true - most are dictatorships, especially the ones existing only on the internet.

There is also in micronationalist circles the phenomenon called YAMO (Yet Another Micronational Organisation),a sort of power play in the course of which certain micronations try to control others by way of formal juridical structures ressembling the UN.These of course and eventually collide with reality,no YAMO having the physical power to compel a micronation to join or stay.They collapse as houses of cards when they are faced for example with a conflict between two micronations,with the pretention but not the power to arbitrate it.Nowadays,micronationalists seem to prefer informal internet forums,where they precisely poke fun at YAMOs which they deem,not without reason,to be failures.

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Mogul

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Re: Help With Constitution
« Reply #8 on: Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 08:13 »

Micronations also and sometimes try hard to give themselves the outward appearances and trappings of democracies,whereas they are actually either absolute monarchies or dictatorships.

Very true - most are dictatorships, especially the ones existing only on the internet. It is, of course, up to the micronation in question to establish any RL structures - as always, good intentions must be followed by practical steps.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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Re: Help With Constitution
« Reply #7 on: Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 07:41 »

Ahem, in this particular thread Fridet has requested some suggestions for his project, which is (from what I can judge) is open for both gays and straights, without any specially gay orientation of the state.

Fridet appears to be a micronation.Micronationalism,as far as I know it,is an essentially male political hobby.Like this forum,and for similar reasons,it attracts an exclusively or almost exclusively male participation,not homosexual in erotic behavior of course,but certainly homosexual in terms of social interaction.Micronations also and sometimes try hard to give themselves the outward appearances and trappings of democracies,whereas they are actually either absolute monarchies or dictatorships.This is not visible in the constitutions they sometimes give themselves.But this is obvious in the way they appear on the scene or dissapear from it,that is suddently.Or by the way they are represented,generally and always by the same person over a certain number of years.I do no say by that that all micronations are one man shows.But their existence and representation towards other micronations or towards the rest of the world rest on one individual.I should know,for I represent myself a micronation in another forum,and still have a participation in internet micronational forums dating back to the fall of 1998.

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Mogul

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Re: Help With Constitution
« Reply #6 on: Wed, Jun 21, 2006, 06:01 »

The only available agent we have at hand is the gay individual.If we settled for a modest goal,like for example the one of defining the tasks of a gay separatist in the real world as it now exists,we could have something implementable right away,even on a defined territorial basis if we so wish.We should define the people,its cultural characteristics and its historical political functions at grass root level,before we try to define a government it doesn`t have and could not operate in the real world.

Ahem, in this particular thread Fridet has requested some suggestions for his project, which is (from what I can judge) is open for both gays and straights, without any specially gay orientation of the state. My suggestions are intended for the constitution of Fridet and not for the constitution of the Gay State we are usually discussing. A bonmot of Oscar Wilde suggests that one shall never critizise the author for not achieving a goal he never intended.  ::)

This be said, I agree that we indeed shall define our people and its cultural characteristics - the issue of "Who is gay" still remains controversial and can be discussed there.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

K6

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Re: Help With Constitution
« Reply #5 on: Tue, Jun 20, 2006, 13:29 »

My are some suggestions for a rather simple Constitutional Monarchy, them being of course only key points, mostly sorting them into 2 categories: a) The State and b) The Rights. The basic idea was to ballance the powers, especially preventing the King to change legislation at his pleasure. Of course, your Constitution shall meet the realities of your nation: a small group of people requires simple and easy to follow legal construction (with much of the power in the hands of the nobility), whereas a larger population will seek for a more elaborate piece of law. With growing complexity of your society you can improve the Constitution, you only must make sure that such change is legally possible.

In macropolitical reality,gays have neither an independent State nor a government of their own.A definition and division of governmental powers
could always be designed on their behald and in abstracto,but could not be implemented and thus would have no political reality.The only available agent we have at hand is the gay individual.If we settled for a modest goal,like for example the one of defining the tasks of a gay separatist in the real world as it now exists,we could have something implementable right away,even on a defined territorial basis if we so wish.We should define the people,its cultural characteristics and its historical political functions at grass root level,before we try to define a government it doesn`t have and could not operate in the real world.

K6

K6

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Re: Help With Constitution
« Reply #4 on: Tue, Jun 20, 2006, 10:01 »

- The citizenship of Fridet is acquired by birth

The gay micronation I have the honour of representing in alt.politics.micronations has a formal definition of who is gay and a corresponding status of
citizenship,which is to be acquired by deeds.Some of the material posted by the GPR (Gay Parallel Republic) and in alt.politics.micronations is in
English.Here,I do not represent the said micronation,but only myself.

K6

Mogul

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Re: Help With Constitution
« Reply #3 on: Tue, Jun 20, 2006, 07:36 »

Generally, every piece of legislation is of it’s inner logic so it is difficult to give “al-inclusive” advices for an ideal constitution. Being a “republican” I would have written a very differing constitution, but this shall not disturb you to consider some general points following. I also didn't mention anything particularly gay, as it would contradict your wish for an inclusive constitution.

My are some suggestions for a rather simple Constitutional Monarchy, them being of course only key points, mostly sorting them into 2 categories: a) The State and b) The Rights. The basic idea was to ballance the powers, especially preventing the King to change legislation at his pleasure. Of course, your Constitution shall meet the realities of your nation: a small group of people requires simple and easy to follow legal construction (with much of the power in the hands of the nobility), whereas a larger population will seek for a more elaborate piece of law. With growing complexity of your society you can improve the Constitution, you only must make sure that such change is legally possible.

My key point suggestion so far:


Section A:  THE STATE AND THE POWERS

1) Head of state: King/Queen (Representation of the State, counterrsigns law acts, appoints/dismisses the Government upon suggestion of the House of Representatives, ennobles merited individuals). Non hereditary – next King/ Queen elected for life by House of Lords (the upper Chamber of the Parliament). In case the King is unable to execute his office: the speaker of the House of Lords performs his duties, if he is not able, the next ranking Lord takes over the responsibility.
2) Separation of powers:
- The Legislative:  Parliament (2 Chambers: a) House of Representatives [elected], b) House of Lords [appointed by the King for 10 years - can’t be dismissed, solely step back by free choice]); all legislative proposals must be approved by both chambers (50% +1 vote) and be signed by the King to become a valid law. If the King doesn’t sign the law within a 2 month period, the law can be passed by a renewed vote of the Parliament with 2/3 vote in both chambers. Further regulations in the Parliament Act.
- The Executive: Government with the Governer on its top, the Cabinet consists of at least the Minister of Defense, Minister of the Interior and the Minister of Foreign Affairs, they all are appointed/dismissed by the King upon suggestion of House of Representatives. Further regulations in the Government Act.
- The Judicative: independent Justice courts with the High Court as the highest court. The judges become appointed for life service by the King/Queen upon suggestion by the House of Representatives and approval by the House of Lords. Further regulations in the High Court Act (minimum age for the High Court, qualification).
3) Mutual control of powers:
- Immunity from criminal persecution for the King, members of the Parliament, ministers of the Government and the judges of all levels. Regulations for re-voking the immunity of the King (2/3 vote in each chamber of the Parliament), ministers (consent of the King or through an order by the High Court), members of Parliament (2/3 vote in the concerned chamber), judges (an order by the next higher court, in case of High Court judges: consent of the King and 2/3 vote by each chamber).
- Government is answerable to the Parliament and the King: the budget proposal for the next year is regarded a law act and must be passed in an orderly procedure. The King may not issue any laws without the consent of the Parliament. The Courts may not take any action on their own. The High Court may declare law acts completely or in parts unconstitutional, decisions of the High Court are binding and cannot be overruled by any other instance.
- The Constitution can be changed by a 2/3 vote by both chambers of Parliament with consent of the King, or by a 3/4 vote by both chambers of Parliament without the consent of the King.
- All international contracts of the Kingdom require ratification by both Chambers of the Parliament and must be signed by the King/Queen.
- The House of Representatives is elected by citizens of the Kingdom independently from their place of residency. All citizense above the age of 16 are eligible to vote, all citizens above the age of 18 are eligible to be elected.
4) Military:
- The King/Queen is the High Commander of the armed forces. He executes his power through the Governeur unless the state of war was formally declared. The state of war can only be declared by the King with consent of at least 4 additional members of the 7-head Security Council. Security Council consists of the King, both speakers of the Parliament Chambers, the Governer, the Ministers of Defense, Minister of the Interior and the Minister of Foreign Affairs.
- All citizens, both male and female, can be determined for the military service if they meet the minimum health criterions. The military service, if compulsory, must be justly aplied to all eligible citizens. The terms for military service and further detailes are regulated by the Military Act.
- Armed forces may not be deployed for any purposes other than an armed conflict involving foreign nations. In case of internal conflicts or riots, the armed forces are bound to remain in barracks and must disobey any contrary orders. Members of armed forces may be deployed in civic service without weapons if public interests makes this necessary.
5) The noble stand is a sign of personal recognition of merits towards the Kingdom. The noble stand is not hereditary and provides no further privilegies than the right to be appointed for the House of Lords.

Section B: THE RIGHTS

- Human dignity is inalienable to citizens and foreigners. No person shall suffer inhumane or disgracefull treatment. The death penalty is abdicated both in peacefull times and the time of war. Physical and psychical torture is prohibited. Every person is equal before the court and has the right for a just process. No one can be deprived of his/her personal freedom unless by a proper court decision in compliance with the laws of Fridet.
- Inhabitants of Fridet have the right for a healthy environment, therefore economic activities and urban infrastructures must be oriented to serve this purpose. The Government is enacted to take appropriate steps to reduce air- and water pollution to the technically possible minimum.
- All citizens have the right to gather peacefully without weapons inside or outside of buildings. In case of demonstrations with more than 100 participants expected, the organizers of the action must notify the local authorities at least 72 hours in advance. The local autorities can order that a place or the time of the demonstration be changed to avoid clashes or severe disturbance of public transportation.   
- The citizenship of Fridet is acquired by birth (territorial or descendance principle?) or by naturalization. No citizen can be deprived of his/her citizenship against his/her will or be forced into exile. Further detailes are regulated by the Citizenship Act. Beyound the regular naturalization performed by the Government in accordance with the law, the King/Queen may grant citizenship at his/her grace to any person he/she regards appropriate.
- All citizens have the right to posess private property on moveable and immobile goods and land. No one shall be arbitrarily disowned without a just compensation and in another way as by court decision.
- All citizens enjoy the right of free conscience and can express their opinions free in what form ever. The press and media are free, a censoreship does not take place. The individuals are nevertheless liable for their expressed speech in case it violates the laws of Fridet as described in the Criminal Code.
- The State and the citizens of Fridet condemn cruel treatment of animals. They in particularly protect all vertebrate animals from torture and prescribe that whenever a vertebrate animal has to be deprived of its life, the most sparing methode must be applied.


---

Generally, I would advise you to formulate the final text of the Constitution as precisely as possible: e.g. the terms like “Certain powers” or “certain policy discretion” say actually nothing and should be replaced by a more precise definitions. If this is not possible, the text of Constitution should reference the law act which regulates the affair.

It is usefull to include only such provisions into the constitution, which are likely to remain unchanged in the next decades. Every legislation which is expected to be changed depending on the current situation is better served by a regular law which requires a less majority to be changed. For example, the constitution requires that the terms of service are regulated justly: whether it means 2 or 4 years is better described by a special law which can be changed more easily.

A challenging constitution example might be the Constitution of Greece, furthermore this collection of ancient laws might interest you as well. An intersting project is also the Empire of Atlantium, they have an elaborate constitution as well.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

Mogul

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Re: Help With Constitution
« Reply #2 on: Wed, Jun 14, 2006, 01:21 »

Even if you don't feel Fridet is a good Idea, or don't feel like you wanna support it now for various reasons I would still appreciate your input on the Constitution/Charter.

Always happy to help in some way!  :P I will read the proposed law carefully in the next days and post some suggestions, if turns appropriate.

It is not like I had some particular objections against Kingdom of Fridet, it is rather the general doubt on realization of micronational ideas in general.  :=SU If you manage it somewhow to turn your dream into reality, you will have every reason too feel proud, my friend.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

fridet

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Help With Constitution
« Reply #1 on: Tue, Jun 13, 2006, 23:50 »

I'm looking for advice and what people would want to see in a Constitution for a Majority Gay Kingdom.
http://www.fridet.org/index.php?section=6
Look at that Link and read the Fridet Constitution as it stands today.  Its far from done, but the framework is there.  I want input, because I really wanna finish the constitution soon to further the progression of Fridet.  I have had a lot in input in various degrees, but would want more before I say "Its Done."

Feel free to discuss it on here, its a great place for feedback.  Fridet is an idea that I see becoming a reality.  I've had certain Financial Support, and other assurances that can help push this dream forward.  Even if you don't feel Fridet is a good Idea, or don't feel like you wanna support it now for various reasons I would still appreciate your input on the Constitution/Charter.

Thanks for you time!
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