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A Fairytale

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Feral:

--- Quote from: Jaix on Sat, Feb 09, 2008, 11:51 ---Anyone know how fast a cruiser can cover 4,000 miles?
--- End quote ---

Assuming this hypothetical cruiser is the Jeanne d'Arc, 5.8 days would be a fair guess. French response times in such a scenario are difficult to imagine -- much depends upon what the French would be willing to commit and where those vessels were when they were committed. Neither Martinique nor Papeete are insanely distant from Clipperton, but both could be said to be prohibitively distant.

Jaix:
Well....I guess I should feel some shame in wanting to steal a whole island from someone....but I'll just have to bear it!  It probably won't come down to stealing anyway.  We will, I'm sure, be more than willing to negotiate with France for the island.  She will, no doubt, understand, since she is the "Mother of Liberty".  We can make it a win/win situation.  We just have to get our foot in the door and then make it too big and heavy to remove without a lot of effort and deleterious publicity.
The floating city provides for just that.  An infrastructure that is quick and complete.  If we had to land, dig foundations, transfer materials, bring in labor to build, provide power/water/food for builders, that takes time and the French could be at our doorstep.  We would be able to see them coming of course.  We would have to contract with a satelite service to watch for them.  Anyone know how fast a cruiser can cover 4,000 miles?
I'm not sure that the Mexican government would respond to pressure from France in regard to the use of Mexican fishing boats, since they have not listened to France's protest about Mexican fishing around the island.  Eventually we will have to license and control the fishing, but that might make for good revenue.  Plus if we could sell necessities to the Mexican fishers it would extend their possibilities in the fishery.
I think Mexico would be among the first to give us some recognition.  If things went well between the Commonwealth and France and the rest of the EU I can see recognition there also.
The island is 8 degrees, I believe, from the equator, which makes it an excellent place to launch satelites from.  China or the S. Koreans might pay for the privledge.  The US could
then be somewhat friendlier.  The US is not anxious to have the Chinese anywhere near the western hemisphere.  But really they would have to treat GLBT people within their borders better to get anywhere. 8((
Something we have been kicking around and haven't resolved as yet is a name for the inhabitants of the GLCK.  GLuCKers has been mentioned.  But I feel that to be somewhat undignified.  As you can imagine that could lend itself to some epithets that should not be :N  Commonwealtherners is too cumbersome, Gayles (Gales) but that may have historical confusion.  My favorite is Passionates....since the island was initially named Isla de la Passion. And really....aren't we all "Passionate(s)" at heart? :!! Any more ideas?
Also this floating city should have a name.  This "Venice of the atoll".  I've promised Mogul a street or canal as it were...will be named after him! :T

Feral:

--- Quote from: Mogul on Thu, Feb 07, 2008, 22:04 ---You know, there are two ways to obtain property: one can either steal or buy it.
--- End quote ---

Another factor is desirability. People defend what they want -- and they do so to the degree that they want it. Undefended land is unwanted land (and for a reason). No one will be stealing very much prime Real Estate, though they might be able to make off with an undefended wasteland here or there. The same applies to purchased land. You will find the wastelands somewhat more affordable than land that has some use. Land which is for sale is inherently unwanted, at least in comparison to the degree that the money is wanted. Rather than seek out some undisturbed pocket of the world, I am inclined toward occupying land quite independently from any claims that might already be made for it, then democratically seceding. Here too, it is a whole lot easier to outnumber (and outvote) the local population if that population is vanishingly small to begin with. It would be easier to enact such a scheme in some place that few sane people wish to live than it would be in some place where people compete for the opportunity to live there in the first place.

As a direct consequence, it is impossible to completely escape a certain Utopian mind-set. Whether one is inhabiting some distant island or some province in Europe, the entire scheme depends upon the new owners being somehow more clever than the old owners ever have been, and it hardly matters whether the land is 'stolen' or 'purchased.'

"Wet" places to live have always proved problematic. Can one live on a lagoon? Of course.

Mogul:

--- Quote from: Jaix on Thu, Feb 07, 2008, 12:25 ---We have poured over maps and charts looking for an alternate to Clipperton.  Or rather not necessarily an alternate, but a place to colonize next, AFTER Clipperton, and there are none that are not claimed.  France and Australia have some sub Antarctic islands, but none really suitable.  Some have active volcanoes, others have such cold climates and hurricane force winds much of the year.
--- End quote ---

You know, there are two ways to obtain property: one can either steal or buy it. Clearly, for the desired property to be stolen it is very fortunate if it lies dormant and unsupervised at some distant location... From that point of view Clipperton is absolutely a very suitable candidate, agreed. On the other side, the more anxiously guarded areas can be purchased for money - their added economic value might quickly overweight the initial investment.


--- Quote from: Jaix on Thu, Feb 07, 2008, 12:25 ---But what I'm getting at is that the Mexican boats go out EMPTY.  They would be willing to transport materials for us. 
--- End quote ---

That is certainly very good for transportation of supplies. Should it be possible, a proxy purchase of some of such fishing enterprises would be extremely usefull, just for the case the Mexican government suddently decides to pressure the native owners. 

Jaix:
Sorry I didn't reply to this area sooner.  I see it has been quite a while since your post.  The "mechanism" of how threads and topics post and their order is, in my unworthy opinion, somewhat counter intuitive.
But on with the topic here....
We have poured over maps and charts looking for an alternate to Clipperton.  Or rather not necessarily an alternate, but a place to colonize next, AFTER Clipperton, and there are none that are not claimed.  France and Australia have some sub Antarctic islands, but none really suitable.  Some have active volcanoes, others have such cold climates and hurricane force winds much of the year.
So they are even further from us being able to transport needed materials to.  Plus there is little chance of using solar power to sustain a settlement.
Master Mogul had reservations about shipping and transport to our putative Clipperton settlement.  I don't remember if I told him that four of us had driven from Mexico City to a  port on the western coast of Mexico, called Mechanilla (I think that is close spelling) to look at logistics.  It is a third rate port to be sure, but the closest to the island.  Transport will be easier than you may think.  There is a Mexican tuna fishing fleet there.  Indeed they fish in the area from the Mexican mainland to Clipperton waters.  France, in the past, has protested this use of the 200 mile economic zone by the Mexican fishermen, to no avail. :R  So that tells one how briskly they may come against us. 8((
But what I'm getting at is that the Mexican boats go out EMPTY.  They would be willing to transport materials for us.  We asked.  At first they thought we were drug people!
But we told them we were just interested in doing a geological survey at some point as cheaply as possible.  But the possibility is there.
As for transport of refugees to the island.  Cruise ships and other merchant ships travel a "sea lane" not all that far from the island.  Traffic comes out of the Panama Canal and if it is going to Japan/Asia goes near the island.  The DMX expedition of 2000 saw several cruise ships as they neared the island.
The island is also located near enough to winds that blow generally toward Mexico north of the island and south of the island they blow the opposite way Mexico to Clipperton.
I think eventually we should have our own fleet of hybrid vessels diesel/electric/sail to serve us.
A harbor is still a problem for the island.  If we re-open the lagoon we lose our fresh water.  Perhaps dividing the lagoon would be the answer.  One part salt water harbor, the other fresh water.  We may even be able to use the tidal fluctuation in the part that would communicate with the Pacific to generate power.
The most exciting idea has come from Mogul.  That is to build the city ON THE LAGOON, not on the island.  This solves a problem for us.  City infrastructure could be constructed cheaply in Mexico on large barges and towed to the island and then pulled over the narrow island down into the lagoon.  To those of you that think this is impossible, I assure you it is not.
In New Orleans, Katrina drove huge barges out of the Gulf of Mexico and the Mississippi two miles inland.  They were dragged and winched that far back to the water.  Plus there is very little bigger than a shrub growing on Clipperton.  There iare one or two groves of coco palms.  Most is coral sand elevation approximately 6-10 ft at high tide.  Surf runs up to 25 feet sometimes depending.
But such a city developing quickly is to our advantage.  In addition the lagoon is not like the reefs surrounding the island.  It is virtually devoid of life, save for large mats of algae.  Remember it is fresher than sea water and the ocean makes for a formitable barrier to the introduction of fresh water species.

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