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Bisexuals misunderstood by straight, LGBT communities

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Feral:

--- Quote from: Evgueni Debacker on Fri, Jul 11, 2008, 22:37 ---All - even straight would be nationals of the State.

But only gay and lesbian people would be citizens. True?  :=V

--- End quote ---

If it were up to me, I would phrase it as everyone who lives there is a resident, everyone who lives there permanently is a national, and everyone who has earned the rights of citizenship is a citizen.

Just what requirements there are for citizenship is a delicate matter... a subject worthy of debate. Until those requirements are settled, it is not possible to say whether a straight person would find qualifying for citizenship just as easy or more difficult than a Gay person. I know many straight people who would make far better citizens of a Gay state than some Gay people I know.

Many states do not serve the interests of Gay persons living within their territories at all and are proud of the fact. Many states do not serve the interests of Gay persons living within their territories very well (even though they claim they do). If a state is to be founded to serve the interests of its Gay citizens well, then one requirement, surely, would be that all citizens of any orientation be able to fully comply with the rights that state has accorded its Gay citizens.

It would be foolish to presume that straight people cannot, by nature, accomplish this task. It would be more foolish to assume that they can.

Evgueni Debacker:
All - even straight would be nationals of the State.

But only gay and lesbian people would be citizens. True?  :=V

Mogul:

--- Quote from: Evgueni Debacker on Thu, Jul 10, 2008, 17:27 ---So - can bisexual person ever be citizen of State? Or then heterosexuality must be declined?
--- End quote ---

Hm, a kind of a dilemma, isn't it? I can't imagine that there would be a strong wish among the Gay population to exclude Bisexuals in principle. Love whomever you want to love, and marry whomever you want to marry. As far as the residential rights are concerned, there should be no problems (even with few heterosexuals, if they are decent people).

From political perspective, there are good arguments both for and against including Bisexuals into political processes of the Gay state. From one side, all residents should have some rights to participate in the social life of their city regardless to sexuality. From another side, it can be argued that the Bisexuals have clearly different interests than Gays and the concept of the Gay state would be "watered down" if it accepted Bisexuals for citizenship.

A possible solution might be the separation of the communal administration of the Gay City from the political network which the Gay State essentially will be. In this approach, not every City resident qualifies for Gay citizenship (which would be basically the membership in the Gay political network). All residents would thus have equal civil rights, but not all of them would be granted the political rights except perhapts ones concerning local city issues.

Another approach is, that Bisexuals (and a few worthy straights) undoubtedly do qualify for full citizenship. There are prominent supporters of this view in this forum, but also those who dismisse such a notion as dangerous and contrary to the state reason. As no single person is (or ever will be) in the position to dictate his/her personal views on the issue, the most probable outcome will be some quota regulation to ensure the further existence of the state how it was intended.

Evgueni Debacker:
Oh yes... there is a problem.

Example - Germans who are living in Russia are returning to Germany coz Russian hate them saying - you are German!

In Germany it's then also problem - Russians, go home!


What I want to say... if I'm bisexual... I don't like this word though - irsexual would be better - since I don't think it's normal to want both genders at the same time. Well, it's normal but not honest.
What I feel is that gender is irrelevant... yes, relations m+m and m+f is different, but isn't different German 18 boy + German 18 boy and Old British Man and Young Chinese Teen? Everything is different...

So - can bisexual person ever be citizen of State? Or then heterosexuality must be declined?

I don't ask whether you will allow marriages between persons of different genders. But at least it may be possible... well, it's difficult for me to talk, since you can say - you are not gay - go away... but society also says me to go away... they don't care what I feel, and if I'm being in love with men - they think I'm a GAY, and it's irrelevant for them that I'm NOT a gay. But I feel gay in POLITICAL sense.

I wish to live in a gay state but... yes, I understand that normal gay wouldn't accept person who can be with woman, while "normal" (how they like to describe themselves) won't tolerate me... what to do?! And what life is... in Russia I prefer to avoid saying anything that may make think of me as bisexual coz Russians don't tolerate GAYS, and gays would require me to renounce from heterosexuality.

But how can I cut off half of me?! Well, I can... but WHAT part should I cut off?

Athrael:
 :gi I know its hard for those bisexuals, but hey they made a choice...    :N to be 'that way'.  :T

I have heard it said that in reality homo and hetro are a minority and are two ends of a long string where degrees of bisexuality exist. And the "dread" of being gay is what keeps the majority from exploring same sex relationships of a sexual nature.

This may explain the strong dread of gays, a majority of people have the urge to one degree or another but society and religion teaches it is wrong so the out and open gays are a symbol of unexplored sexual desires thus the target of all the crap we get. Thus the idea that people can "turn gay" because we are taught to suppress a great deal of natural sexual expression - worse we are taught that they are wrong, or not explained to that human sexuality is far more complex than what most people believe.

Most people don't learn much about sex beyond the mechanics. Sex drive is not well understood and it isn't until the 20th century that sexuality was considered a science worth researching. For most of human history we relied on myth and religion to lay down the fabric of what is sexuality, in many eras of the past sex was not even discussed, and in a few of those eras sex was not even acknowledged as actually taking place.

Even the Gay community which has a little more knowledge about sex, is still conditioned to expect certain things out of sexuality and relationships. Some of which should not be expected at all like a life long commitment to one mate.  Physiology, anthropology and history all tell a tale of how humans are designed for more than one mate in a life time.  If monogamy was natural to our species, then divorce rates would be far, far lower than the estimated 50%.

Even the experts will admit we do not know everything about human sexuality, there is a great deal left to learn as to the motivations and expressions out there.

Gays may be the opposite of straight, thus are easy to define themselves as something a little more clearly when it comes to "normal" hetero sexuality. Bisexuals fall somewhere in between. Given that we all suffer the programing of tradition and society some bias is to be expected even from the gay crowd who, one admits, is still stuck in the old framework of thinking about many aspects of sexuality.

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