GLR Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Read "Sixteen Propositions" by Michael Denneny in our online-Library!
 http://library.gayhomeland.org/0003/EN/index.htm

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Gay homeland - Why?  (Read 2827 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sage

  • Group member
  • Sr. Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 30
Re: Gay homeland - Why?
« Reply #4 on: Thu, Jan 09, 2014, 14:45 »

Allow me to answer one cute drive-by post with another. Why don't you folks think a gay "homeland" is the way to go?  Why wouldn't I (or anybody else) want to live in a nation entirely made up of gay people?  As for "What (beside who and how I fuck) do I really have in common with other gay people that I don't also have in common with straight people" why does that matter? Please explain.

Feral

  • Official Flying Monkey Smiter
  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 262
Re: Gay homeland - Why?
« Reply #3 on: Mon, Nov 01, 2010, 02:38 »

So I came across this group a while back after a friend pointed me towards it.  I have to ask, why do you folks think a gay "homeland" is the way to go?  Why would I (or anybody else) want to live in a nation entirely made up of gay people?  What (beside who and how I fuck) do I really have in common with other gay people that I don't also have in common with straight people?
This is a casually interesting batch of questions. With regret, I cannot properly answer them. I could not possibly begin to speculate on what you might or might not have in common with other people on the basis of ninety-four words of text. I mean... seriously, Boopsie... are you high? You want me to sum up your existence on the basis of ninety-four words? I won’t do it.

One thing I suspect you do have in common with other Gay people is this cute (and really... it’s charming as can be) “drive-by” post. We have yet to be the beneficiary of one from a self-professed heterosexual. Strange, I know... but completely true. They just never, ever have. I could speculate on why that is. I even have done so from time to time but it got me nowhere.

There are a number of neurological and endrocrinological factors that you almost certainly do not share with other straight people. After all, if you did have those factors in common with straight people you would be straight. Who knows? You might be straight. It would be imprudent of me to presume that you were not based on nothing more than your use of the word “other.” Some of these factors you (might) share with Gay people have public policy implications but most don’t. While I find them quite interesting as a topic of conversation, I just don’t find they have much to do with politics. Something else you share is a history of really quite remarkable oppression. Indeed, many of the statistics I’ve seen out of Great Britain suggest that you’re quite lucky to be alive... luckier than I am. That may, after all, be something that you and I do not have in common, though you do share it with Gays residing in Jamaica. While me and mine really do make quite the habit of complaining about our own species of oppression, I must confess that it just does not compare to that which pertains in places like the United Kingdom.

Now... this “anybody else” wanting to live in a nation entirely made up of Gay people... I presume that this hypothetical Anybody might wish to do so because of a misguided dissatisfaction with the company of straight people. This hypothetical Anybody would be, I think, doomed to disappointment since I know of no Gay Nationalist organizations anywhere that even support such a notion, let alone plan on implementing such a state. Gay Nationalists come in many conflicting flavors... you could call them political parties if you wanted to. They vary considerably in what they hope to accomplish but I think it safe to say that all of them have an interest in Gay sovereignty. While it is certainly true that an absolute exclusion of straight people would produce that end result, I know of not one person who espouses this belief. For myself, I find such ideas irredeemably evil. I would never wish to live in such a nation. I wouldn’t even care to share tea with someone who would. A Gay state may be viewed as a movement away from straight people or as a movement toward Gay people. I very sincerely believe that the former is doomed to failure (and ought to be) while the latter is not.

It appears to me (on the flimsy foundation of but ninety-four words) that you are fundamentally in error about nationality, especially chosen nationality.

A friend of mine, one that I had not seen for many years, suddenly appeared at my workplace.

“Guess where I’ve been?” he demanded with a most charming and mischievous grin.

“I couldn’t possibly,” said I (because I’m totally like that).

“Berlin,” says he.

“Berlin? Goodness gracious, Sweetie. I know perfectly well I’ve instructed you to avoid Texas at all costs. Please don’t tell me you’ve been in Texas just to be willful.”

“No, Silly. Not Berlin, Texas... Berlin, Germany,” he says. “I quite like it there.”

“Well... many people certainly are fond of the place,” says I.

Then this friend of mine gets that serious look... the one you know nothing about because you’ve not met him... the one that means he’s about to stop being silly and start being serious. “I’m thinking of moving there... becoming a German, I mean.”

The conversation proceeds from there in a direction that serves this particular diatribe not one bit. The point of the anecdote is this: My friend has nothing whatsoever in common with Germans... nothing that I could state. He was quite serious about this “becoming a German” stuff and he made his decision (so far as I could tell) based on the differentness of both the place and the people living there.

Similarly, I could relate a nifty pair of anecdotes about separate people, one of whom emigrated from the US to Canada and another who emigrated from Canada to the US. They aren’t at all interesting but... again... this notion of having anything in common with the people of their respective destinations was conspicuously absent.

I’ve never heard of someone leaving one nation for another on the basis of a perceived commonality. That would, I think, be shockingly weird and I find the imputation that such a thing would be required in order for you to even casually approve of the foundation of a Gay state to be somewhat disturbing. Of course, I really ought to be permitted to be disturbed by whatever disturbs me and you should not, in any way, take offense at my disturbance. I mean nothing by it at all... especially since it would be silly of me to form a firm opinion on anything based on ninety-four words. Many people do find me to be quite silly (and I am), but no one accuses me of being quite that silly.

If you are content with the manner in which you are governed, then by all means lie back and enjoy yourself. Be happy. I don’t mind one bit. I am convinced that you would be better governed by Gays. I am convinced that all people would be better governed by what might be termed “homo-centric” rather than “hetero-centric” principles. I think Gay people should govern their own affairs to their own satisfaction and, far from imagining some heterosexual-free environment, I am convinced that heterosexuals would also be very nicely served by such a regime; they just wouldn’t be entirely in charge. I can see how that might be an unpleasant state of affairs for some straight people. I can see how it might be an unpleasant state of affairs for some Gay people. Since there are all those other straight-run states to choose from, the only real discontent that would result from a Gay state would be that which arises from not ruling the entire world. I have no sympathy on that score: you just don’t get to complain to me about how you don’t have dominion over the entire world. After all, while I am convinced that what is good for the Gay people would be good for all people, I have no designs on "all people." I don't even have designs on all Gay people; the majority of Gays wishing to live in a sovereign Gay state would have to emigrate there. I can't imagine how one would even begin to try to compel them to do so.

Nope... if you don't want to live in a Gay state, don't move there.
« Last Edit: Mon, Nov 01, 2010, 02:43 by Feral »
Stonewall was a riot.

Mogul

  • Viktor Zimmermann
  • Administrator
  • Guru
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Gender: Male
  • Posts: 691
Re: Gay homeland - Why?
« Reply #2 on: Mon, Oct 25, 2010, 13:52 »

I have to ask, why do you folks think a gay "homeland" is the way to go?  Why would I (or anybody else) want to live in a nation entirely made up of gay people?

The basic idea is that Gays constitute a separate people - a "particular social group", a "cultural minority", and that Gay people would be significantly better off when they were taking their issues into their own hands. This idea we call "Gay nationalism". This includes Gay culture, Gay self-government, and spacial congregation of the Gay people.

We think that Gay people are governed rather poorly by straight people, and that we could govern ourselves much better. Straight people outnumber Gay people in a relation of 16:1, and therefore are always in the posession of political power. Accordingly, the entire legal system usually is taylored to suit the needs of straight people - often on costs of Gay people. Even in a "perfect" society where Gays are not actively persecuted and do enjoy the same legal rights as straights, the cultural live, education etc is entirely straight-centered. This can be only changed by creation of the Gay public space - by the means of Gay publications and by spacial congregation.

Speaking of the "non-perfect" societies, which harbour the overwhelming majourity of human population, Gay people are subject of social and religious hatred, professional bans, denial of medication, censoreship, imprisonment, beatings, torture, murder - for no different reason than being Gay.

It has been my experience that boys and girls from oppressive countries need no further explanation of advantages the Gay state would offer them. A productive life in safety and freedom is a sufficient reason for them to move. Most Gay people highly value the chance to freely associate with other Gays - a chance most of our people do not have either due to persecution and/or due to the spacial dispersion. The Gay city will offer Gays the chance to enjoy the culture and live among people who really understand and embrace eachother - not the condescending kind of "inclusion" the straight people can offer to us.

To turn the question the other way around, why would you (or anybody else) want to live in a nation entirely made up of straight people?*

What (beside who and how I fuck) do I really have in common with other gay people that I don't also have in common with straight people?

This question can be answered only by the individual himself or herself. One either feels a kind of special bond to "his people", or doesn't. One can even wilfully choose to participate or not to participate in any particular culture. The question is, of course, whether the other members of that one culture of your choice do share your feelings (that you belong with them). For illustration: the situation of a Gay person feeling belonging to the straight society is comparable with a person of African origin who grew up in China and considers himself a Chinese. The sense of "belonging together" is rarely reciprocal, in both cases. 

In general terms, just like in any people / any nation, there is much diversity of opinions / intelligence / tempers among the Gay people. What keeps us together, is the sense of "brotherly love" which is definitely not there in relation to the straight people (male or female). The shared experience of being different, the experiences of exclusion and oppression, do contribute their share to the shaping of our common identity. Additionally, our cultural interests naturally differ from those of straights: straights usually do not read Gay literature and do not watch Gay movies. 

The issues of identity have been discussed on this forum and elsewhere, and if you have an interest, you can go through these discussions:

http://forum.gayrepublic.org/index.php?topic=394.0
http://forum.gayrepublic.org/index.php?topic=188.0
http://forum.gayrepublic.org/index.php?topic=148.0

„Sixteen Propositions“ by Michael Denneny: http://library.gayhomeland.org/0003/EN/index.htm

http://gayspecies.blogspot.com/2006/09/gay-essence_24.html

----------------------
* You must grant me the assumption tha a nation made up of 94% of straight people comes quite close to the definition of "entirely made of straight people".
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

Louis Parsons

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2
Gay homeland - Why?
« Reply #1 on: Mon, Oct 25, 2010, 02:29 »

So I came across this group a while back after a friend pointed me towards it.  I have to ask, why do you folks think a gay "homeland" is the way to go?  Why would I (or anybody else) want to live in a nation entirely made up of gay people?  What (beside who and how I fuck) do I really have in common with other gay people that I don't also have in common with straight people?
Pages: [1]   Go Up