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Mogul

  • Viktor Zimmermann
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Re: Comment
« Reply #8 on: Thu, Sep 01, 2005, 17:07 »

Jaix,

I am "on travell" in Germany - not really a world trip. We have rather good whether here - much sun and only slight breezes.

The thing with New Orleans is horrible. I've never been there but I was reading a couple of times about the city - it's a pity. Some people predict an increasing amount of this kind of catastrophes around the globe - due to the global warming and the clima change. I do not understand much about meteorologie, but in Germany we are discussing already new concepts for the city planing - the devastations from the last catastrophe in East Germany were too serious.

Vicky
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

Jaix

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Re: Comment
« Reply #7 on: Thu, Sep 01, 2005, 08:35 »

Viktor,

Well now that you said the name I remember!  I just had a mental block :Y  I'm not sure how much good the "Gayzette" did the old kingdom..most of the listings were "nil"....wait...now the old kingdom is nil also...what symmetry!
I have been watching the Gay e-zines in Australia.  No sign of Mr. Anderson, in fact I can't even find any Aussies in the chat rooms of Melbourne, Sydney, or Canberra that have heard of the old kingdom at all!
I did prod the carcass of the old kingdom a bit and ex Lord Chancellor did come out and growl, weakly.
Are you enjoying your trip?  Did you travel outside Germany?  I understand there has been some terrible weather in middle Europe.
Speaking of which, one of my favorite cities, where I spent several years growing up, has been practically destroyed.
Anyway that is the news out of New Orleans. I cry for all the places I remember that will probably not be there anymore. :'(
In the fall the Gay community there had a festival called "Southern Decadence"  truly a good time.  Not to mention the Mardi Gras in the late winter.  So sad

Mogul

  • Viktor Zimmermann
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Re: Comment
« Reply #6 on: Thu, Sep 01, 2005, 00:26 »

Jaix, you have right - the legal claims on Cato were very artificial and far from any common sense, as Australia entertains there a weather station and indeed has older legal claims on the area. Sure, a de-facto control of the reef by some stubborn invaders could result on some kind of independency achieved by negotioations. But the idea was fascinating and many people (me too) were inclined to "generously look over" the logical breach in the argumentation - it was just so tempting!

The PC member you refer to is called Joe Grande. Shame on you, Mr. Prime Minister - you should be better informed! ;D Joe was one of my opponents regarding the monarchy, but he was indeed making good job in the GLK: he issued the official GLK paper and served his souvereign on his best.

I'm just wondering how many GLK's parliament members are still interested in the project and what their actions will be.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

Jaix

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Re: Comment
« Reply #5 on: Sun, Aug 28, 2005, 08:36 »

Jon, Viktor, Don,

Good to hear from all of you.  I must be slowing down.  I missed this posting until now.
I am not gloating over the failure of the idea, of a Gay and Lesbian Kingdom, because that is what I still espouse.
I do take a certain satisfaction in the demise of the old kingdom, especially its upper eschelons.
As I told Jon, Bill, Dale, and Enrique many times.  You can not have a superior body to an elected Parliament, since it represents the citizens of a nation.  The citizens are what it is all about.  Making a kingdom FOR a monarch, instead of for the commons is absolutely medieval thinking, and a fatal flaw.
I essayed to place constitutional reform on the fast track, and to also get at the truth. What futures might have been if those efforts had been allowed? Heavy sigh  :'(
Another cancer that would have eaten a hole in the body politic was the nonsense about getting Cato for the wrongs done by the government of Australia.  After I left for the Commonwealth, I contacted, through a lawyer friend, the head of the Harvard School of International Law, Dr. Anne Slaughter, about this premise.  In a word, it is nonsense.
And as for the International Court hearing this, more nonsense.  It hears this sort of thing...between established nations.  Not a nation and a non territorial group that doesn't live in the contested area.
Now if you LIVED there, for some time, and ACTED like a sovereign nation, and got other nations to de facto recognize this, even in minor ways, THEN you have something.  A lot of this is referenced in the American Journal of International Law.
Be that as it may....of all the officials of the old kingdom, I think that you, Jon, and the PC member "FemontBridgeMan"
(I forget his name) were the most sincere, and hard working, and for you gentlemen, I'm truly sorry it didn't work out. :(
But if I can butcher some metaphors.....there is no sense crying over spilt milk over the dam  :Y
We should just go on with whatever efforts we individually, or jointly, feel are worthwhile.

Pleasant day to all,

Jaix

donClark

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Re: Comment
« Reply #4 on: Sat, Aug 27, 2005, 12:23 »

first of all ,
hello Jon
second of all what is up with you I have to totally disagree with you on one subject which I have in quotes here,  I stuck it out  until I was called a trator for my beliefs and called a liar, and told that I was an asshole and my life threatened, yes threateended, of course not in public it wasnt,  but by private email, thats why I left, I have not gloated over the "kingdoms demise, though I saw it coming, and yes I agree united we stand diveded we fall, but the kingdom is the one to blame for the diveded it is the one to blame.  my partner who still believed in the kingdom was still a member till about a week ago when all his posting were moderatede, now what kind of freedom is that really and how can they plan to make people stick around where there every word is moderated before they can post it, sounds like some thrid world arab country to me where you watch what you say or you dissapear, not someplace I would want to be at all.


. This is why I stuck with the “Gay and Lesbian Kingdom of the Coral Sea” for as long as I saw even a glimmer of hope that the goal might be achieved.

I’m stubborn and don’t give up easily and so I stuck it out longer than some others who have moved on and in a different direction. Those groups have continuously, persistently and publicly taken many opportunities to criticize the original effort. Nothing important is accomplished by such slur campaigns nor is anything important accomplished by the gloating now being displayed by some over the recent failures of the original effort.

United we stand…divided we fall … a cliché, no doubt, but Oh so true. Too bad the GLTBi community failed to stand united in this important effort.

Karnickel

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Re: Comment
« Reply #3 on: Sat, Aug 20, 2005, 21:49 »


Yes, long time I haven't seen you here!

Please, here is your cup of coffee, honey! :K

I don't have to much to do here... Slow business here, you know? I wish you would come and visit me more often! Our Vizier ahm, Elsie the Cow is licking her lips already! ;D

---------------------------

« Last Edit: Sun, Aug 21, 2005, 14:33 by Mogul »

Mogul

  • Viktor Zimmermann
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Re: Comment
« Reply #2 on: Sat, Aug 20, 2005, 19:09 »

Jon, of course you have right with the suggestion that a recognition by United Nations was/is an important part of the original project and its successors. Though I do not share your views about lacking necessity to be able to actually offer refuge to real human beings, I understand that it would be a greate step forward by a recognition as a people (not necessarily as a nation). You see, Sinty and Roma are peoples, not nations as well as many diverse minorities living abroad. All of them are in posession of passports of their host land, but they are protected as minorities. Is this a kind of status you would appreciate for the gay people? So why claim Cato? Wouldn't a rightfully acquired cattle farm serve much better? One can have different opinion about the real use of such level of recognition, and I am not sure that a tiny state on a tiny reef would change the situation for the gay people considerably.

Yet, the idea indeed was greate - it rushed around the world and agitated many minds. Dozens of people spent days in front of their computers and were planning some actions to work the project out, contribute their share and maybe dare the adventure to physically occupate Cato for the gay nation. Unfortunately, the good faith of these people was abused - as it became evident that Dale provided us with fayritales and Bill, who was aware of the fraud, preferred to keep the public ignorant - out of "state reasons", of course.

You tend to see those, who left the GLK at an early stage, as renegades? Fine. You get arranged with the power structures within the group, indeed you inherited the highest possible position in the GLK (as Dale formally left all his powers to the LP), and yet you were not able to change anything there. In Bill's plan, the parliamentarians were "advisors", and the commoners had nothing to say in this movement. Few, chosen individuals regarded themeselve as the creme de la creme of the group and were not intended to give others equal opportunities to take responsibility. All of you in the PC believed to be so much more educated and better informed, because Bill provided you with informations which were withholded from others, hey? The people were supposed to be the stupid mob, listen to the glorious not-elected leaders, provide assets and has nothing to say. Is it that much bewildering that almost everybody with ideas and clear mind has left the GLK group???

Bill was not acceptive to any reasonable argument against the monarchy, because he believed himselfe in a secure and flattering position - now he has to bears consecuqences, which were predicted as early as 6 monthes ago. I believe that a group based on democratic principles has certain self-regulating mechanisms - this motion has been denied by the leaders of the GLK manifoldly in the past. Indeed, all the factual criticism was considerred to be just personal insults.

Of course, we would do much better if we would re-union again. But surelly not on conditions that some of us would be "more equal" and count more than all the others gathered together!

Besides, you really could register in the forum - this does not imply anything about your stand to us. As you can see, Jaix is also here, as though he is a Prime Minister of the Gay Commonwealth. We don't bite and you could participate on more debates than only about lacking milk and honey in the caffé.

Be well, my friend - you are always an interesting and welcomed guest here.
:)
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

Jon

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Comment
« Reply #1 on: Sat, Aug 20, 2005, 14:56 »

The Year was 2004 and an idea was put forth. Declare the Coral Sea Islands independent. It was a GOOD idea with a lot of potential. Not because it would give GLTBi people a place to escape and go live in isolation. Not because it was/is important to have a territory to claim as our own. It was a GOOD idea because IF “Official” recognition could have been achieved it would have given the Global GLTBi community a voice on the world stage.

Article 15.
(1) Everyone has the right to a nationality.
(2) No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his nationality nor denied the right to change his nationality.
Article 16.
(1) Men and women of full age, without any limitation due to race, nationality or religion, have the right to marry and to found a family. They are entitled to equal rights as to marriage, during marriage and at its dissolution.
(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.
(3) The family is the natural and fundamental group unit of society and is entitled to protection by society and the State.

Article 15 and 16 of the Universal Declaration of Human rights, among others, could have been better enforced and violation prosecuted before the International Court of Justice.

In my mind, THIS was the ultimate goal of gaining recognition as an Independent Nation and therefore the reason that a territory was important. This is why I stuck with the “Gay and Lesbian Kingdom of the Coral Sea” for as long as I saw even a glimmer of hope that the goal might be achieved.

I’m stubborn and don’t give up easily and so I stuck it out longer than some others who have moved on and in a different direction. Those groups have continuously, persistently and publicly taken many opportunities to criticize the original effort. Nothing important is accomplished by such slur campaigns nor is anything important accomplished by the gloating now being displayed by some over the recent failures of the original effort.

United we stand…divided we fall … a cliché, no doubt, but Oh so true. Too bad the GLTBi community failed to stand united in this important effort.
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