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gay homeland

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Feral:

--- Quote from: theangelopenshereyes on Wed, Jul 18, 2007, 08:12 ---Is it always going to be a country for people fleeing persicution?
And who will be in the heterosexual countries helping young new gay and lesbians through the oppresion of being gay or lesbian in a prodominantely heterosexual country, no matter how liberal and tolerant it claims to be.
--- End quote ---

The answer to the first question would be 'yes.' If we were contemplating some bizarre experiment like a colony on Mars, this would clearly not be a functional proposition. We're not though. Straight society manages to produce a great many homosexuals year after year... they always have done. In theory, were all the world's Gays and Lesbians to congregate in one hypothetical country, that country would likely oust the US from it's rank of third most populous country on the planet (if not, the hypothetical country would easily displace Indonesia as the fourth). Of course, no one imagines ALL of the Gays anywhere will be doing anything... just some.

As for who would remain to help younger Gays in the countries of their birth -- in principle, those people who are disinclined to separatism. There are quite a lot of them. There always will be. The care and well-being of younger Gays is a question of extreme importance, though. Quite separate from any "threat" that a Gay state might pose to the availability of older mentors to young Gays is the completely inadequate provision for their care and welfare as things now stand. Were the Gay people to set their minds to providing some materially effective assistance to their younger members, the results would certainly be welcome. They've yet to do so in any significant manner. While it is conceivable that some sort of massive emigration of Gays and Lesbians might isolate younger Gays and Lesbians who have not yet determined to emigrate or who do not yet have the means to emigrate, I hardly think that isolation would amount to an increase. Gay youth are isolated now to a shameful degree. It is not possible to abandon those you have already abandoned.

Mogul:
We can approximately count with some 300 millions homos on this planet, and it is totally unlikely they will all move to one place. Rather the "Gay country" would resemble what Israel is to the Jewish people: a significant part of the entire community, but not the only place to live. Even if 20% of Gay population would leave their countries of origin (a totally unfounded speculation), there will be the remaining 80% to help the youngsters. Still, the best help for the young Gays and Lesbians would be to recommend them to emigrate. The more of them do, the better.

When the Gay country is established, Gay people will go there not only to flee persecution, but to experience the new quality of life. Mind you, so many people "flee" their agrarian surroundings to the cities because of the greater possibilities, and for Gays such a place would have very much to offer. Given the chance, people rarely consider their "moral duty" to stay and help others to cope with circumstances of a wicked place - on contrary, they flee as soon as possible and help the youngsters to flee as well.

theangelopenshereyes:
I like the idea of protected settlements, but Im not sure about the whole gay lesbian state thing. I feel practicalities like populating it has been slitghtly over looked.
Is it always going to be a country for people fleeing persicution?
And who will be in the heterosexual countries helping young new gay and lesbians through the oppresion of being gay or lesbian in a prodominantely heterosexual country, no matter how liberal and tolerant it claims to be.
Just being practical. xo

Mogul:

--- Quote from: Feral on Wed, May 16, 2007, 20:34 ---"Home is where the heart is" and I am afraid that the Gay people have, in large measure, little connection to their own hearts. [..] If the Gay people can (and I suspect that they really can) "learn on the job" in some Gay state that springs from the head of Zeus like Athena, then they can also learn on the job where they are now. They do not because they are deceived into not wanting to. They think they want something else entirely. They need to be persuaded otherwise.
--- End quote ---

You might remember we have once discussed the issue of Gay Nationalism somewhere else, and I thought it necessary to stress the distinction between the "People", the "Nation" and the "State". Gays as a people is, and has always been there -- in oppressed form, acknowledged, but yet there. Our traces can be found throughout human history for millenia, no matter what the social constuctionists might wish us to believe. A people is described by an entire set of cultural habits and practices, which may vary with time, but one shall be aware that abandoned cultural practices do not die out -- they become history and part of this particular people's myths. Thus, the Gay people is of course subject of cultural change and evolution, but it is still the same people -- no matter of what skin color and geographical location. We are a people, even if a people sui generis -- a factum, which not everybody easily recognizes at once. The State, on contrary, is the least difficult to explain - any group of people in posession of sufficient power can establish a State, which is nothing else as an advanced network of individuals and institutions. The Nation is a conception which is not easily defined - basically, it is a "thought community" of individuals who consciously identify themeselves as members of this community, and act to the benefit of this community in their big and small actiones. A national interest is recognized, and issues of such national interest are considered by elites and "simple people" with equal attention. Hereby it matters little whether the fellow national is located next doar, in a foreign country, or on a ship somewhere in terra incognita -- "the Nation" takes a profound interest in his/her activities and well-being, despite all the physical distances. "The Nation" is thus a state of mind, in first line.

Currently, the Gay people are only in beginning of building nation - a spontaneous process, which can be either reinforced or disturbed by deliberate efforts of knowing individuals, insofar they have the means and grips to do so. The nation-building actually doesn't require a State behind it, since the elites and the people are very well able to conglomerate into something distantly resembling a nation on their own, solely relying on those gravitation forcel of shared culture. That's currently our weakness - this cultural gravitation pull is not yet strong enough in most Gay individuals. This has to be contributed partially to our homophobic upbringing, partially to our spacial dispersal. Like in the physical world, cultural gravitation forces seem to reciprocally depend on the distance between the bodies. The closer we come to each other, the more we get appealed by our own people. Remember what you felt when you did not know any Gay individuals in persona? There was probably not much attraction, but rather a repulsion force at work -- thanks to the stories straight people tell us about our race. The more Gay people we know and the more we actually interact with them, the more are we attracted by other Gay people. Thus, interconnection is the key requirement for building a nation. It is no coincidence, that the rise of modern nations came in the 19th century contemporaneously with the rise of mass press. The newspaper connected the eites with the middle-class, and created the common public space which is so charactiristic for all nations. We Gays, too have this public space novadays, but unfortunately it is available only to those who have access to internet, and speak any of the common business languages. Like peasants in a distant mountain village of 1850, most of our people are still cut off the nation. Additionally, many put themselves in a self-chosen isolation, or they fall prey to the nationalism movement of some other nation. Being a diasporic nation, this is, unfortunately the doom of our people -- foreign nationalism being the "default" mindset.

Can we change this? Yes, we can. Thanks to the human nature, individuals with multiple identities tend to choose the one identity as primary, which is promising most glory on the marketplace of national vanity (or national pride, if you wish). A weak nation exercises relatively little attraction on individuals struggling with their national identity, a strong nation quickly wins. We are currently an extremely weak nation with a greate potential. It means, the more Gay people actually utilize their personal potential "under the flag" of the Gay Nation, the more attracting the national identity will turn. The best thing is that most Gay people would not require to make extra efforts on the parts of utilizing their potential -- they simply are required to show flag. It's not like we had nothing to present as a nation, but many of our Nobel prize winners, famous ingeneurs and generals remain well hidden [closeted] and are mimicring themeselves under foreign flags. To persuade Gay people to love their people and be proudly Gay is an essentional step, a difficult one due to the assimilationist agenda and straight propaganda. Luckily, the tremendous cultural burden of building a nation rests upon many shoulders and we [the Foundation] are but one small piece in the whole. However, we are apparently the only ones who already grasped the process as what it is -- the nation-building.

The State, in its essence, is an advanced network of institutions and individuals. I am much more optimistic on the issue of the State than I am an the issue of the global Gay Nation. The establishing of a network depends solely on our abilities to knot the networks, the Nation can only reach those who is physically able to access national infrastucture. To put it another way: we most certainly can create our advanced network, but we will miss large portions of our people.

The State, is not about territory, even if iit is desireable to posess some. The "Gay homeland" we are speaking of, is indeed not only the city-state we have in mind. Everybody can attempt to create his private "gay homeland" by establishing local friendship networks, and moving closer to other Gay people, both spacially and mentally. We can call the entirety of it a "Greater Urnland", "Gross-Urania", or whatever we like.

Athrael:

--- Quote ---"Urnland" (for lack of a better word) will eventually (and I think inevitably) crystallize out of a "Greater Urnland."
--- End quote ---

How about New New York with New New York City... ;)


--- Quote ---Any ideas on this? Feral was suggesting foam parties with Go-Go boys, the most reasonable suggestion so far... Smiley
--- End quote ---

yes I have a few ideas. Discussed elsewhere.


--- Quote ---Yep, Buddhism would be an ideal State religion.
--- End quote ---

State Religion is a bad idea.  The State should be Humanitarian but not religious. Religion should be a personal matter decided by the individual for self.

Further In New New York Nation and New New York City Churches will be taxed too.


--- Quote ---We will certainly have no need in betraying an ally
--- End quote ---

Ally? Do the GLBT have an ally?


--- Quote ---The problems I have with "secret societies" is partially attributed to their invisibility. How should such an organization recruit its membership?
--- End quote ---

Its not a secret society. We are talking about a business, a corporation - a company - and like all companies do it will have its corporate secrets. Corporations do very, very well with "recruitment" of workers, CEO's, etc.

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