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Author Topic: Every-day LGBT political work  (Read 3719 times)

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Re: Every-day LGBT political work
« Reply #10 on: Thu, Apr 27, 2006, 00:22 »

A quite understandable position if one considers oneselfe a foreigner and does not wish to interfere with "local politics". The other question is, of course, whether this position can be recommended for the vast majority of gays and lesbians. I know, our views on dual citizenship differ, but isn't it very practical to actively participate in "local politics" to influence the legislation and actual environment towards gays and lesbians?

I must say that I am at times quite tempted to involve myself in local heterosexual politics.For I do have preferences,certain purely sentimental,others the fruit of cold-blooded and cynical figuring.For example,I am quite sympathetic to the Quebec independence movement as a sort of tactical political playmate.But I am not in the least interested in its strategical aims,which is the political independence of Quebec.Political separation from heterosexuals must start somewhere.If we want full blowned separation right now,we will remain confined to theoretical debates.If we start to apply political separation la carte,that is piecemeal and without having yet our own State,there are pratical aspects of independence to be implemented right now.Like withdrawing from the political processes of the various heterosexual societies in which we live.Or at least,not participating openly in them.If heterosexuals aren`t our fellow countrymen anymore,political association with them must cease and be replace by relations of a diplomatic type,with those heterosexuals with whom it is possible to deal.A gay separatist movement may perfectly deal politically with heterosexuals,but not in a way which would make these heterosexuals appear as our fellow countrymen.

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Re: Every-day LGBT political work
« Reply #9 on: Wed, Apr 26, 2006, 23:20 »

[..] Nowadays,either I do not show up at the polling booth,or I cast an blank vote.In that respect,I terminated my relation with heterosexuals as fellow countrymen back in 1979. [..]

A quite understandable position if one considers oneselfe a foreigner and does not wish to interfere with "local politics". The other question is, of course, whether this position can be recommended for the vast majority of gays and lesbians. I know, our views on dual citizenship differ, but isn't it very practical to actively participate in "local politics" to influence the legislation and actual environment towards gays and lesbians? Our agenda will include building up good relations with as many countries as possible, and to try and influence their politics in our sense. Participation in local elections might bring real changes - if our 7-10% learn how to act smartly.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

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Re: Every-day LGBT political work
« Reply #8 on: Thu, Apr 13, 2006, 02:56 »

To be sure: we aren't talking about the personal wealth of gay activists - we talk about the money which is payed by gay and lesbian taxpayers to their respective states. It's only fair to re-claim certain part of that money back for gay and lesbian infrastructure, or simply to demand from politicians to provide good work for the money we pay to the state. It's not about "land for money" - we only shall keep in mind that as long as no gay state is existing, we can't afford to completely withdraw from participation in political processes in countries dominated by heterosexuals.

The last time I participated in a an election (local and provincial in that case) in Canada was in 1976.Nowadays,either I do not show up at the polling booth,or I cast an blank vote.In that respect,I terminated my relation with heterosexuals as fellow countrymen back in 1979.I pay taxes,but do not mind the least.The equalization of burdens,on the contrary,seems to keep everyone quiet and prevent conflicts.I served in the canadian army reserve,but that is not relevant for there is no compulsory military service in Canada.I was in that case only a volunteer.

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  • Viktor Zimmermann
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Re: Every-day LGBT political work
« Reply #7 on: Thu, Apr 13, 2006, 02:34 »

To be sure: we aren't talking about the personal wealth of gay activists - we talk about the money which is payed by gay and lesbian taxpayers to their respective states. It's only fair to re-claim certain part of that money back for gay and lesbian infrastructure, or simply to demand from politicians to provide good work for the money we pay to the state. It's not about "land for money" - we only shall keep in mind that as long as no gay state is existing, we can't afford to completely withdraw from participation in political processes in countries dominated by heterosexuals.

Though intense negotiations with "hethro regimes" are not on my every-day personal agenda, I am highly supportive to the work done by other guys and would insist that their efforts are not being denounced. There is no reason to strike back any helping hand, even if this hand is offered by a straight politician.
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

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Re: Every-day LGBT political work
« Reply #6 on: Thu, Apr 13, 2006, 02:17 »


The historical characters (and role-models) I have studied were - among other characteristics - completely indifferent to money.They were so singleminded about the idea of self-determination that wealth didn`t count for them.

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Re: Every-day LGBT political work
« Reply #5 on: Thu, Apr 13, 2006, 02:04 »

[..] No amount of money,wether payed or received,could have any influence upon their patriotic sentiments. [..]

Ahem, are you going to accuse me of being a collaborateur?  8((

While you certainly have right that an integer gay separatist would never surrrender his ideals for money, I do not share your categoric despise for compromises with the "hethero regime". Not every country fits into the rigid scheme of evel straights and good gays - at least in a dozen or two of democratic countries we have the possibility to achieve progresses step-by-step through negotiations and a tedious political lobbying. This salami tactics have proven sucessfull in a number of countries and have yielded actual improvements for real gays and lesbians. Whats wrong with this? We do not "surrender" our ideals, on contrary - by enchanting our allies we win terrain and improve our situation in general - that's no way a high treason.  :N

Of course, official representatives of the future gay state will be forced to assume a bit harder political attitude - but this is another talk. :L
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

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Re: Every-day LGBT political work
« Reply #4 on: Wed, Mar 29, 2006, 03:24 »

I beg your pardon, but I must take the liberty do disagree at this point! As long as I pay my taxes to this government, and as long as this government pays for my education, health services etc, it is hard to pretend that gays and heteros were "no fellow countymen". It could be different, yes - and even desireable - but this version of yours simply does not correspond with political realities of many countries.   :N

Historical role models whose example I am trying to emulate - like,say,France`s general Charles de Gaule - could not care less about money or wealth.No amount of money,wether payed or received,could have any influence upon their patriotic sentiments.In the canadian province of Quebec where I live,I pay among the highest taxes in north America.It doesn`t change a bit to my gay separatist sentiments,because in that respect,I do not care what I will loose or gain financially and as a private person by being a consequent gay separatist.

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Re: Every-day LGBT political work
« Reply #3 on: Wed, Mar 29, 2006, 02:12 »

[..] But without acknowledging that we could be their subjects,denizens or fellow countrymen. [..] These are not relations with fellow countrymen,since non-gays are foreigners to us. [..]

I beg your pardon, but I must take the liberty do disagree at this point! As long as I pay my taxes to this government, and as long as this government pays for my education, health services etc, it is hard to pretend that gays and heteros were "no fellow countymen". It could be different, yes - and even desireable - but this version of yours simply does not correspond with political realities of many countries.   :N
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin

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Re: Every-day LGBT political work
« Reply #2 on: Tue, Mar 28, 2006, 01:01 »


Our experiences in the last few years show that politicians are also but humans - one shall talk to them, if one desires to be heard. Though I of course am aware that a friendly talk does not necessarily result in an actual progress, building bridges (or simple noise-making) is essential for political work. Even if some politician is an declared enemy of ours (like Polands President Lech Kachinsky), he should know that we exist and are determined to fight for our rights.

As consequent gay separatists,we are bound to deal somehow politically with non-gays,politicians or not.But without acknowledging that we could be their subjects,denizens or fellow countrymen.Political relations with non-gays,where they are rendered possible by some favourable local context,are diplomatic relations to a gay separatist.Regardless of the fact that gay separatism lacks a formal expression in the form of a State at the moment.These are not relations with fellow countrymen,since non-gays are foreigners to us.With non-gays who are not antagonistic and problematic to us,these relations could be more or less informal and friendly.With problematic non-gays,we could resort to certain procedures used by States.Like asking them to produce *written powers* authorizing them to deal officially with us.Or simply,by subjecting them to passport control prior to any political encounter and discussion with us.We,gay separatists,should stop begging and start behaving as the representatives of a politically independent people.

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Every-day LGBT political work
« Reply #1 on: Mon, Mar 27, 2006, 01:52 »

This weekend I participated in the the yearly meeting of the german gay and lesbian association (LSVD), it was nice to see that the athmosphere got much merrier since during the last years. Lots gays and lesbians, happy and self-confident, talking about the good work of the last year, and making plans for coming activities.

The meeting was attended by the Germany's Minister of Justice, Ms. Zypries - she readily came to talk to us and to express her good intents to engage in the legislative activities on behalf of the full recognition of same-sex marriages and child adoption. The talk and the discussion thereafter was friendly and constructive. I also used the chance to remind the audience of the situation of gays and lesbians in many islamic countries and asked the Minister, whether the government is aware of the problem of gays in Afghanistan who are subject to Sharia and awaiting death penalties in a country, which is currently occupied by the US and German troops and greatly supported by European Community. She was honestly puzzled and said she was only knowing about the one case of the Christian convertite (who is awaiting his death sentence as well - but with direct intervention of German Chancellor Angela Merkel, will be probably spared). Some other guy came to the micro and asked about the asylum regulation in Germany, and the necessary changes to recognize gays and lesbians as legitimate group. All in all, the discussion was very productive - a refreshing experience, if one recalls the politics of the last years.

Our experiences in the last few years show that politicians are also but humans - one shall talk to them, if one desires to be heard. Though I of course am aware that a friendly talk does not necessarily result in an actual progress, building bridges (or simple noise-making) is essential for political work. Even if some politician is an declared enemy of ours (like Polands President Lech Kachinsky), he should know that we exist and are determined to fight for our rights.

Therefore: write letters, send e-mails, talk to politicians! If you are immediately concerned by some problem, don't hesitate to contact your local representative and bitterly complain about the unjustice! Local politicians learn the best when they have a real person with real problems. :+
"Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right!" Salvor Hardin
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