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Author Topic: Land Ideas (new and old)  (Read 22861 times)

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Mogul

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Re: New Land Ideas
« Reply #27 on: Sat, Jun 11, 2005, 04:36 »

Just do develope the idea of a land-buying in a colder region, but with prospects to a better economical developementt:

There are many Islands available in Canada in the big lakes between USA and Canada. Though it is not necessery that the gay state is an island, it seems that the isolated area is psychologically important for us (don't ask me why!). The Canadian government is rather gay-friendly and (regarding the huge territory of Canada) it seems not entirely improbable that we could gain independency over our tiny state by negotiations. We could gain a status similiar to that of Vatican in Italy, with the difference that the area available would be much bigger and suitable for economic developement. It seems that the prices for the km² are rather low, there is plenty of water and enough building materials (wood) to create accomodations. In Ontario the same-sex marriages are recognized and no difficulties have to be expected for travels to and from Canada. Even during the process of gaining independecy step-by-step our people would enjoy benefits of an existing gay-friendly legislation. Economic prospectives are rather good as well, due to possibility of export to the US and Canada.

For example, the Frechette Island in the Lake Huron, ca. 457 acres costs only :) CAD 999,000: http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/sales_islands/sites/3a_frechette_1.html

There are also many smaller islands available in the lakes which we could buy without even having won in a lottery. - Little La Mouna Island, Nova Scotia, Lake island, approx. 30 acres, CAD 280,000: http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/sales_islands/sites/3a_lamouna.html

But, as already mentioned, it is not necessery that the territory is an island. A large coastal area could surelly also be bought for a good price.

The only drawback would be the rough climate, and the tourists will surelly stay away in winter. ;D But hey: people in Canada live in the same climate and they do pretty well!
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Mogul

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Re: New Land Ideas
« Reply #26 on: Fri, Jun 10, 2005, 23:07 »

Yes, a good climate would be nice. I also would prefere a tropical paradise if there would be a free choice. ;D But please consider that we are looking for a territory, which could realistically gain independence by peacefull means and be able to sustain groving population. This means that the area in question shall be large enough and possibly not of an overwhelming importance to the initial power. It is clear that this would be not the best piece of land, because otherwise there would be already a population and economy there. We cannot expect such a territory to be a land of milk and honey, which we could bye for a couple of dollars.

What we need (in my eyes), is a rural territory of considerable size with a potential to develope an urbanity within the next 40-100 years. The area should have sources of water, clay, wood and enough territory suitable for agriculture. The rural character of the area would allow the initial inhabitants to provide at least with food and houses, without being excessively dependent on the help from outside. Yes-yes, the beginning will be humble and more of an agrarian nature, though the future government (or whoever responsible) will have to do a great job while encouraging industry to settle there. The proceeding of urbanization would go hand in hand with increasing population, but the land mass as such must be big enough to enable this developement. What shall we do otherwise, when the initial village of 700 gay nationalists stting on 2.8 km² will grow to a city of 100,000? The area must be larger.

I am not afraid of beginning building up a "national economy" right from the scratch. Most problems of the so-called third world countries result from breaches of traditional society structures, uncontrolled population growth and a generally low level of education. Not every poor country is automatically to be considered as a "third-world-country" in the narrow meaning we usually believe it to be (half-naked starving people without any medical supply). We shall take (one more time) Israel as an example of a state, which is successfully utilising manyfold talents of its citizens and turning a desert into a flourishing land of gardens with healthy economy.

These considerations moved me to inspire the focus of debate be moved avay from tropical islands to different, less paradisic but probably more suitable regions. Of course, Kerguellen was just a provocation to make you think about something different than a coral beaches and long drinks. ;) Though we have an considerable amount of cooks and restaurant managers among us (Vizier, Feral, Lord Karnickel and even the LP from the GLK!), there are also a lot of people with professions related to the heavy industries as well. If we would be able to arrange a deal with a friendly government about a larger piece of land located somewhere in a moderate-climate area or even a bit colder, we should take it without further hesitation. Remember, our primary goal is political independence in order to enable unrestricted immigration of GLBT people and a safe life in freedom there; a possibly agreeable climate would be of course a highly welcomed bonus, though.

Gaining political independency (beginning with a kind of self-administration, I think) will be a difficult process at any terms, be it an overseas territory of France, a territory in Canada or Brasilia or an islet in Bahamas. The process will be very complicated and to be performed in a legal way which will secure our proprietary rights and the right to reside on the territory which we would bye one day. Just imagine us having spent 15,000,000 EUR for an islet on Bahamas and become imprisoned there for secessive activities with complete confiscation of posessions. Sounds weird but could become a reality pretty quickly. Besides, the neighbourhood is rather hostile against homosexuals there, our defence spending could become extraorbitantly high there. ;D ;D ;D Of course, we should keep this island on our list (it is not that bad!).

I would like to encourage the discussion to take into consideration preferably this 3 points:
   1) What do we want to get in the ideal case, 
   2) What is the worst still acceptable offer, and
   3) What possibilities do we have to develope any solution (2) towards (1)?
 
For example: we could buy a very cheap tropical island of 10 km² but without any infrastructure and no fresh water on it. Shall we sign the deal or not? Solution: We can install a water desalination plant and do pretty well!

The larger Mexican island you suggested before is still my favorit. Alternatively we could look for a cheap area in Canada or Brasilia, as well. These nations would surely not bomb us in the case.
« Last Edit: Fri, Jun 10, 2005, 23:38 by Mogul »
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Re: New Land Ideas
« Reply #25 on: Thu, Jun 09, 2005, 20:44 »

Here is another possible site in the Bahamas which seems ideal, provided of course we can come up with $20 million (nothing to it, play Lotto everyone!)

http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/sales_islands/sites/05_ragged_1.html. Nice photos on this page.

From the ad: This well wooded island boasts thousands of Lignumvitae trees, elevations to 40 feet, over 30,000 feet of water frontage, year round prevailing winds, a good sheltered harbour, an abundant supply of good fresh water, two fairly large ponds, excellent fishing, good soil and numerous mature coconut trees. Little Ragged Island, Ragged Island Cays, approx. 700 acres, US$ 20,000,000 
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Re: New Land Ideas
« Reply #24 on: Sun, May 29, 2005, 04:26 »

Hello all, pardon my long absence. I have moved from one side of tiny Vermont to the other and one would think I had moved cross-continent or internationally, but such is life here in one of the smallest, least-populated and least-known states in the U.S. It took me nearly 3 weeks to get DSL (instead of cable, which is not available in my new digs) and am still waiting for satellite so I am not limited to 4 crackly, snowy tv channels the way we were when I was a little boy many many moons ago.

I find the idea of anything owned by the French government rather difficult, I am afraid. The French government has at times been absolutely homophobic and the idea that they might simply cede any speck of territory to a "bunch of fags" (or whatever they might secretly call us) is anathema, to me at least.

I must admit that the reason why I have been looking in the Caribbean is the climate, which is far more attractive to me than the weather on Karguelen or the others listed, and I find Clipperton, which is smaller than anything mentioned in my posts about the Caribbean islands, much less attractive still.  Further, the idea of possibly buying something as a precursor to independence seems more logical than hoping that France will allow any of its overseas territories to be taken away. After all, St. Pierre and Miquelon are still an overseas "departement" even though they have almost nothing in common with the "home land" and have in recent years several times decided to explore joining Canada only to be severely taken to task by "mother France."

So what do our resident geologists think about the islands mentioned over in the "old ideas" area as far as habitability is concerned?

My other thought is that these Caribbean islands, all of which are much bigger than either Cato or Clipperton, would probably provide sufficient land mass for the first "wave" of inhabitants. After all, I doubt that any gay nation, whether republic or "kingdom/empire/fantasy freeform government" will need to have a land mass that is overly large to begin with.  Anything that could realistically sustain a population of several hundred to a few thousand to begin with will probably be more than sufficient, no?

Let's be realistic: While we endeavour to help many flee oppression and live the free life we all yearn for, we will have to establish an economy and a way to survive, and rather than doing so by ourselves setting up another financially stressed "third world" nation with one sole benefit - freedom from oppression for GLBTs - we must considera system closer to that of the EU, where some citizens who are able to will be instrumental in setting up the initial economy while others who wish to will work and live there and enjoy benefits they previously have never experienced. In other words, some of the residents will naturally be contributors while others will be in need of assistance and contribute in other ways. Ergo, no matter how we might like to throw the doors open for all comers, there will need to be some sort of immigration policy designed to create and secure a stable, viable country/government/economy, which means that in the initial stage (and perhaps thereafter) a huge landmass would (in my opinion at least, and I stand to be corrected if you can convince me I am wrong) be unnecessary.
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Mogul

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Re: New Land Ideas
« Reply #23 on: Fri, May 20, 2005, 02:24 »

Hm, it seems to me that we are fixed on tropical islands... Have you ever thought about a really big island like Kerguelen? OK, the wheather is rather trying (mostly +5°C to +7°C and rain with strong wind 300 days a year), but the Island is really huge one and could be populated with rather big amount of people. Unfortunately, the agriculture seems impossible and the island is known as the "Island of Despair".

Here is what I found on the Internet:

Kerguelen Archipelago is situated at 49°20' South, 70°20' East, midway between Africa, Antarctica and Australia. Kerguelen is a French possession, lying some 13,000 km from France in the Southern Indian Ocean. The main island occupies measures roughly 120 km by 140 km, occupies 6,675 sq km and is surrounded by around 300 other smaller islands, reefs and rocks, forming an archipelago of 7,215 sq km.

The coast of Kerguelen is deeply indented with fjords, whilst the interior is heavily glaciated. The highest point is Mount Ross, at 1,850m, in the south of the island.

Scattered French possessions in the Southern Ocean contribute to it's position as the country with the largest Exclusive Economic Zone in the world. It is one of the four parts of the Terres Australes et Antarctiques Françaises, which include Terre Adelie (Antarctica), the Crozet Islands and the islands of Amsterdam St-Paul.

Climate

Kerguelen's weather is harsh, with rain and snow most days of the year. Winds blow continuously from the west, as the islands lie in the path of the "Furious Fifties". Winds of 150 kph are common, and gusting up to 200 kph has been known. As Kerguelen lies on the Antarctic Convergence where upwelling cold water from the Antarctic mixes with the the warmer waters of the Indian Ocean, birdlife and marine mammals are abundant. The state of the sea reflects the high wind speeds, with wave heights of 12 - 15 m being common. The sea around Kerguelen is, however, ice free.


As a compromise maybe Amsterdam and St Paul Islands could be taken into consideration, with a little bit better climate (+11°C to +17°C).

Amsterdam and St Paul Islands are located in the southernmost Indian Ocean at 37°50' South and 77°35' East, and are amongst the most isolated in the world. They are located more than 3,000 km from any continent, approximately halfway between South Africa and Australia. Both are volcanic island, rising from the fault separating the Indian Ocean from the Antarctic Ocean. Amsterdam is broadly oval in shape, measuring 8 km wide by 6 km across, with a maximum altitude of 881 m.

The two islands lie on a narrow ridge which falls to great depths. Of very recent formation, Amsterdam is a relatively simple volcano made up of deposits of lava and basaltic slag. From the successive eruptions of the various craters on the island. There are more than ten different craters. The principal craters, believed to have created the island, are those of Mont de la Dive (867m) and La Grande Marmite (730m). Lava flows radiate outwards from these craters, forming low cliffs where they meet the sea.

Youngest of the craters is the Dumas crater which dates from the last century. No sign of volcanic activity has been recorded recently on the island. Paleomagnetic data suggest that the bulk of the island was made during the last 690,000 years.

The only remaining evidence of the original eruption is one caldera of 2 km in diameter.

Martin de Viviès base is the only inhabited place on Amsterdam. It has about 30 inhabitants, including administrative staff, a doctor, technical personnel (power station, plumbing, joinery, kitchen, store, station and telecomms) and scientists (studying the weather, ornithology, physicochemistry of the atmosphere and geomagnetism).

The island of Amsterdam forms part, with the island St Paul, of the District of St Paul and Amsterdam.

Climate

Amsterdam and St Paul have a moderate oceanic climate. The Antarctic convergence lies approximately 500 km south and the temperature of sea water on the surface varies from 12.7º in August to 17.4º in February.

Air temperatures vary from 11.2º in August to 17º in February, the annual average being 13.5º. Relative humidity's are generally high and range from 80% in March to 82.9% in November. This is due to the frequency of low cloud ceilings.

Fog is relatively rare, occurring on only 11 days per annum. Rainfall is high with an annual average of 1,114 mm distributed over 239 days and mostly falling as rain. Falls of hail or snow are sometimes observed in winter but seldom at low altitude. December to March is drier (78 mm per month against 100 mm per month from April to November).

The wind is a persistent with 150 days per annum having strong winds above 55.6 km/h: the most frequent directions being the WNW and the NW.


There is no other population than crew of scientists of 40-100 people, on Kerguelen even a doctor is available.

The information are from http://www.btinternet.com/~sa_sa/kerguelen/kerguelen_islands.html there you can find also detailed maps.
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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #22 on: Sun, May 01, 2005, 07:39 »

This candidate is to be kept in observation, I think. At least it appears suitable due to its size and good climate... 

Yes, I agree. Obviously if it were out of Mexican territorial waters, it would be better, but hey, it is viable and large enough to allow a somewhat significant population.  So start playing your respective lotteries, people!  :D
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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #21 on: Sun, May 01, 2005, 07:37 »

Congrats, Don - what a trip!  Hope you have a digital camera with lots of memory cards for this one! Amazing itinerary. Have fun, don't worry about a thing here. The "store" will be in good hands while you are gone.  :D

Maybe I will have time to experiment with establishing a few photogalleries by then. My copy of FrontPage is totally screwed up making many normally simple actions on the underlying website a major pain in the butt, so I am still learning to deal with pHp with the help of sscherokee...

Happy landings and bon voyage!
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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #20 on: Sun, May 01, 2005, 02:14 »

also guys, I will be on a plane Monday to India, but I will check as soon as I land in Mumbai.  I will be in Mumbai until Wednesday, and then I fly to Dharmasala where I will not have internet access, I will be in Dharmasala until Friday then I fly to Dheli, where I will be until the next Monday,  I then fly to Wellington New Zealand for four days then Ifly to Cape Town, south africa, and then  I leave to go to the Mali Mali game preserve for a four day game viewing safari.  I will not have internet access in South Africa either, so please be patient with me guys.  My partner and I are going along with My AUnt.  This is something I have always wanted to  do,  and I thought do it now while I still can  I will take lots of pictures  so that I can share my adventures with you guys 


I will look into all this islands as soon as possible. and then I also will check into the situation with all the natural resources, oil,natural gas etc. this will be important to know as well.


Don

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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #19 on: Sun, May 01, 2005, 01:57 »

I will look into all this islands as soon as possible. and then I also will check into the situation with all the natural resources, oil,natural gas etc.  this will be important to know as well.


Don

Mogul

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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #18 on: Sat, Apr 30, 2005, 23:31 »

Hm, not really cheap but probably worth every penny... Ok, maybe a bit too close to the coast: bad for a de-jura independency (but surelly good for the economic developement).

A $30 million, pricey, but this is my No. 1 proposed candidate:  [...]

http://realestate.escapeartist.com/P-26975 See also http://www.lapaz-realestate.com/Property/65

This candidate is to be kept in observation, I think. At least it appears suitable due to its size and good climate... 
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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #17 on: Sat, Apr 30, 2005, 05:19 »

Then of course, there is Ireland, the aulde Sod... here we have several candidates, this being the largest and best (although subject to the ho-hum Irish climate):  Carberry Island, Ireland, ca. 28 acres, EUR 1,000,000. An island with a 2-storey cottage, white sandy beach, breathtaking views over sea and mountains. In the middle of the sheltered Dumanus Bay which is 20 miles long, ideal for sailing and fishing. The water in the bay is absolutely clear and clean - seals and otter on the islands prove that here is a paradise for fishermen and divers. The beauty of the bay and permanent gently western winds form an ideal region for sailing as well. Go see the picture! http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/sales_islands/sites/02_carberry_1.html
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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #16 on: Sat, Apr 30, 2005, 05:13 »

Chile, anyone? Here's a beauty which has had historic visitors and is truly magnificent. The pricetag? Only a paltry US$ 5,300,000 and at 16,000 acres, it's a bargain. Details: San Pedro Island is a relatively untouched area which totals more than 16,000 acres in size. With two large natural lakes and great views of the lower Andean mountains, this island is one of a kind.  The British explorer Charles Darwin visited this island on his "Voyage of the Beagle" which he details how he could not reach the over 1,000 foot summit of the island.  Map, photos, more: http://www.vladi-private-islands.de/sales_islands/sites/07_sanpedro_1.html



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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #15 on: Sat, Apr 30, 2005, 05:05 »

Aso nice at $10 million but "petite" by comparison is Caille Island off Grenada in the Caribbean - 400 acres. LOCATION : In the Caribbean Sea, approximately 3 miles off Grenada's northernmost point near the coastal town of Sauteurs. Lat. 12 deg 13’ N, Long. 62 deg 35’ W.  PHYSICAL FEATURES : The island consists of  two volcanic knolls separated by a flat valley or plain. Island has lush green vegetation including coconut palms and fruit trees. The coastline has beaches to the north and several small bays and stretches of beach in other places.  CLIMATE : The Climate is tropical with an average Temperature of 82 Degrees Fahrenheit during the day and 78 Degrees Fahrenheit during the night. Rainfall averages about 46mm in the in the driest month, to 250mm in the wettest month. IMPROVEMENTS: A 40,000 gallon water storage tank is located on the island to supply the island with drinking water. The tank is fed from the roofs of 4 uninhabited houses. A private docking facility also exists.  TRANSPORTATION : Island Road is constructed to make the access easy to the dwelling houses. This island is 15 miles from Grenada Airport.  Who could ask for anything more? With some creative building, we could probably squeeze several thousand on this island! Can you say "Gay Republic made to order"???


Take a look: http://www.tropical-islands.com/Grenada.htm
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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #14 on: Sat, Apr 30, 2005, 04:56 »

A $30 million, pricey, but this is my No. 1 proposed candidate:  Uninhabited, privately owned island is located off the east coast of Baja in the Sea of Cortez. It is approximately 60 miles east of the city of La Paz.  16 miles long (ca. 26 Km), with an area of approximately 35,000 acres (14,000 hectares). The landscape features a mountainous ridgeline and peaks with altitudes of up to 2100 ft (640 m). The ridgeline runs north-south, with streams draining east to west to coves and beaches along the Sea of Cortez and the Cerralvo Channel. The ridgeline runs closer to the east shore, with high bluffs and steep cliffs overlooking the Sea of Cortez. The west coast consists of intermittent headlands, with westerly draining streams flowing into beaches and sandy points. The sea drops off to 300 fathoms within a mile on the channel side and down to 800 fathoms off the east side, provide the necessary ocean currents and the sea habitat for big-game fishing.  With one of the best, most consistent climates in the world, the natural landform of Cerralvo Island should allow for development. A slope analysis was performed to identify the natural areas with relatively steep slopes and those with gentler slopes that will allow development. The southerly portion of the island offers the most potential, and is in area approximately the size of La Paz. Development of Cerralvo Island will require installation of a power generating plant, a desalination plant for drinking water, and a sewage treatment facility for reclamation and re-use of treated effluent for irrigation of golf courses and greenbelts. Solar energy should also be a consideration in the development of Cerralvo Island. In addition, there is the possibility of using deep water temperature difference to supplement the generation of electricity. The island is blessed with continuous spring-time climate, balmy nights and gentle breezes.

Far enough off the coast of Mexico to claim independence eventually, and seemingly supplied with fresh water. Don, your eval please???

http://realestate.escapeartist.com/P-26975 See also http://www.lapaz-realestate.com/Property/65
« Last Edit: Sat, Apr 30, 2005, 05:00 by Vizier »
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Re: Older Land Ideas (reposts) ;)
« Reply #13 on: Sat, Apr 30, 2005, 04:48 »

Or how about Brazil? This one is already populated - 200 cows!  :D  We can export our own milk right away! (Or drink it, at least we won't die of thirst...!)  http://www.privateislandsonline.com/santosbay.htm# There's also 50,000 cocoa trees, a large area of Atlantic bush trees and mangroves. The island's white sand beaches and abundant coral reefs are perfect for scuba diving. The main house is in perfect condition and includes 15 rooms, a chapel, 4 common rooms, a dining room, and a large kitchen. There's an additional house next to the main house.  So we'd even have infrastructure to start colonialization with and we could make chocolate for export! Wow - all this for "only" $3.5 million.  Everybody must now play the lottery! It's a must!   ::)
« Last Edit: Sat, Apr 30, 2005, 04:57 by Vizier »
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